Canadian Knife Laws

K

kraut

Joined
Apr 14, 2000
Messages
118
Great Idea for a new Forum. This is proof positive that if you think about doing something long enough someone else will
beat you to it
.
To the point. I would like to make myself available as an aid in understanding Canada's Knife legislation. Although I am not Lawyer, and do not proffess to be an expert in case law, my current position and past experience could help point you in the right direction to answer any questions.
At present I am a novice knifemaker with a small (10 x 20 ft) workshop. I have made and sold about a dozen knives with an equal number sitting waiting to be finished.
My full time career is as a 23 year Police Officer. I am currently assigned as a Court Officer and have the opportunity to see and hear on a daily basis how the law is changeing and being applied.
I hope this background will allow me to be helpfull to this forum and give back for the
great advice rec'd in the shop-talk forum.

Jim Ziegler aka Kraut




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Originally posted by kraut:
I would like to make myself available as an aid in understanding Canada's Knife legislation.

Jim Ziegler aka Kraut
Click to expand...

Welcome. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Always good to hear from a brother officer.



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Dennis Bible
 
Well, could you tell me what the knife laws are in Ontario?

Thanks,

Whirlwind

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Revelation 13:9-10, "If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."
 
Hi Whirlwind.
I am going to give you a quick overview right now and if you need more specifics I'll bring home my "Criminal Code" from work.
First off Canada has One set of "criminal" law for the entire country. The provences and territories do not have their own criminal statutes as do the individual states in the U.S.
Offences are broken down into Indictible(more serious with greater penalties), and summary,(not as serious).
Sit down because it starts to get confusing from here on. Some offences can be proceeded with either way depending on the circustances,(previous record of accused,political climate, etc and this is at the prosecutors discreation.
General: WEAPON= anything used, designed to be used or intended for use in causing death or injury to any person, or anything
used,designed to be used or intended for use for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person (includes any firearm).
As you can see this is very broad and can include anything from a paper-clip to a thermo-nuclear device.
Prohibited Weapons/Devices are numerous but for your purpose I'll try and stick to edged items....Shurikens or similar devices,Finger rings that has one or more blades or sharp objects that are capable of being projected from the surface of the ring. Constant companion (belt buckle knife).
Push daggers..(any knife with the handle being perpendicular to the blade),and any other similar device but not the aboriginal/eskimo "ulu" knife.
Innocuous Object...anything less than 30cm long designed to conceal a knife or blade.(such as false Pen, coin, pendant or necklace etc even the fake "comb knife".
Spiked wristband...Skinheads and punkers beware!!
Brass knuckles...or similar device.(this would include knives with guards/grips with finger holes for one or more fingers.
Switch blades or any similar knife which can be opened automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attatched to the handle of the knife, (this incudes butterfly knives).

There are many more items described in the "Code" and activities which can be criminal offences , carrying a "weapon" at a public meeting. Concealing on person, or in vehicle.

The best rule of thumb is unless you are sitting down to eat with it or engaged in skinning a moose in the bush leave it at home.
Aren't you glad you live in the States ?
Sorry I was so long winded .
Hope this helps.
Kraut
 
I'd say the basic rule of thumb is this:

If you are not carrying a knife with some
legitimate purpose, or you are carrying a
knife with no purpose except to use for a
self-defense weapon, do not carry a knife.

Even more specifically, due to the fact that
an individual LEO's opinion is going to very
drastically affect you:

* If your knife snaps open with the most
minor wrist-flick, either crank up the
blade tension until it doesn't flick so
easily or leave it at home. LEO's frown
upon knives that can flicked open.

* Serrations are frowned upon for reasons
I can't understand. You may wish to avoid
them if you're buying a daily carry knife.

* If your knife has the word "fighting"
or "combat" or "tactical" or "defense"
in the brand or model name, leave it at
home. It may be argued this qualities the
knife as a weapon. If you carry a working
blade, make sure it's a working blade and
not a 5" tanto-blade black-Ti Microtech
or MOD tactical/combat folder.

* That said, a quality knife says something
about you that a cheap import sticker does
not. Carry a respectable knife and not a
flea-market special.

* NEVER tell an LEO you carry a knife for
self-defense. It doesn't matter. If you
can be shown to have any intent to use a
knife in this fashion, it's a weapon. If
you carry a knife as a tool, it is NOT a
weapon.

* Keep geography in mind. A dinky little
folder won't attract any attention in a
rural Ontario town. Take the same folder
into downtown Toronto or into an airport,
and it's an entirely different story (also
see: Serrations, Design).

... This said, I've been carrying folders of
various descriptions for years without any
issue. The main thing to remember is that
your knife is NOT a weapon. This should be
reflected not just in your choice of knife
(size, blade style, aesthetics, and design)
but also in how you conduct yourself when you
use your knife, and how often you bring it
into public view. If and when it comes out,
it should come out without flourish, fanfare
or menace like any other tool.

I'm not a lawyer, but this is my conclusion
after reading some Canadian law and some of
the legal precedents here. YMMV.

T.

[This message has been edited by tw (edited 11-05-2000).]
 
BTW, I'd like to add that, in my opinion,
saying "Aren't you glad you live in the
States" is really unfair given the WILD
variation of knife law from state to state.

Many U.S. states have far more restrictive
knife laws than Canada. A powerful example
of this is the absence of any sort of blade
length limit in the Criminal Code.

A 4" folder or fixed-blade carried in Canada
as a working knife is completely legal; in a
state like Arkansas, a 4" blade length would
be prima facie evidence that the knife is
being carried as a weapon.

T.

[This message has been edited by tw (edited 11-05-2000).]
 
TW ..
Your points are well taken. It is good that all our Knife/Weapon law is is found in one volume rather than as in the U.S. with each jurisdiction having their own.
My comment "aren't you glad you live in the U.S." is a carry-over of my envy of their second ammendment Right to Bear Arms. As a Firearms Verifier I'm in the middle of the
registration frenzy that is burying the Firearms registration system. As a LEO I'm torn between not wanting to walk up to a door and face some nut with an AK-47, yet as a law abiding citizen I want to be able to defend my home (rural) while waiting for the under staffed O.P.P. to get there.
I'll get off my soap box now besides this is a knife forum.

Kraut
 
Well, luckily, M-16 and AR-15 variants are
still considered "restricted" weapons and
not "prohibited" weapons (as long as they
are semi-automatic ONLY) in Canada.
smile.gif


But yes, back to knives, I do thank you for
your input here. I'm always really happy to
hear from LEOs on these topics.

T.
 
Ok I'd like to ask a few questions here.

Does what you've said apply only to carrying in public or on your person or does it also include possesion in your home?

What happens when things are in a reinactment type of situation. This type of thing could easily be considered a public meeting but when speaking of Medieval reinactment nearly everyone there has a knife on their person. Many of which are designed as weapons as many people do carry replicas of historic knives.

I've read in some bylaws (I think one of them was Toronto) that a sword must be worn to the front of the hip etc etc. And I have seen people carry real swords etc. in the open. Typically only on Halloween though. How does this work exactly? Or if it's just a discression of the officer type of thing could you please explain typical criteria that would make it acceptable.

What happens in the case of religous knives. Some religions require that a specific knife be carried. Is this type of thing an exemption?


This is something I've been interested in for a while. I tried a while ago to learn about it by checking online Canadian laws but couldn't understand the lingo.
 
Matt.
Sorry for the delay in responding.
All prohibited weapons are prohibited anywhere/everywhere.
As is typical with our government there are
exceptions made if they think you are worthy
such as if you owned the item before it was proscribed prohibited then the Governor in Council can issue you a permit which turns that specific item into a restricted weapon for you only. It will then be subject to what ever limitations of use/display they feel like giving you.
There are also permits granted only under special circumstances.
I am fortunate enough to be the holder of one of these rare permits in my capacity as the President of a Military Museum in my community. It permits me to have and transport every type of restricted and prohibited device/weapon short of Nuclear devices.
Note: this has many of my fellow police officers a little worried as one of my nick-names is "the lunatic".
All kidding aside I take this responsibility and priviledge quite seriously.
The religious knives you refer to I believe are the sihk kirpans. The are cerimonial symbols of the believers being prepared to defend the faith at all times and are not usually sharpened but just that symbols only.
As to Toronto's by-laws I can't help you there only to say they are not "Criminal" laws and as such would not impart a "record"
other than within that city and not of a criminal nature.
Hope this has been of help.
J.Z.
 
Since even your 6" hunting knife isn't a weapon, are there any CCW laws? I mean could I let my shirt drop over the knife a little? I know it'd be hard to say "That's just for utility uses" when it was in an ancle hulster, but here in MI, if my shirt/coat covered it, it's concealed.

~Whirlwind~

BUSH CHENEY 2000!

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(As you can see, I like BUSH! Go Bush!)

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Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the
right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
 
Whirlwind,
Dealing only with knives the chance of being charged or convicted for carrying one concealed or not in plain sight is 50/50 and depends on the individual circumstance. I'll explain with a couple of examples a little further on but first let me quote our "carry concealed weapon" section.
Sec. 89. Every one who carries a weapon concealed, unless he is the holder of a permit under which he may lawfully so carry it,
(a) is quilty of an indictible offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is quilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Note: the choice of which subsection (a) or (b) to proceed with is up to the prosecutor and depends on factors such as any previous criminal record and or circumstances under which it was carried.
The operative word is "WEAPON" which is anything used, designed to be used, or intended for use in causing death or injury to any person, or intended for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person.
It all depends on the circumstances.
Here are a couple of examples that occurred in my city this year each involving a 4" fixed blade hunting knife.
Case #1... several teen-agers were hanging about near a strip mall late at night and a neighbour became worried and called the police. One of them had a sheathed hunting knife which he was showing to his friends.
One of them asked to see it and had the knife in his hand looking at the blade when the cruiser pulled up. Panicking he quickly
stuck it in his back pants pocket and let his shirt fall over the handle. The officer saw this movement in the headlights and immeadiately isolated the youth from the others and conducted a search of his person and located the knife.
The youth was charged with carrying a concealed weapon.
Fortunately I was assigned to that court as security officer and managed to convince the
prosecutor that this knife did not fit the "weapon" definition and was designed and intended for hunting purposes.
He with-drew the charge Which was laid by an officer who believed in good faith that an offence was commited but didn't fully understand the nuances of the section.
The second incident involved a similar knife but this time the accused had it stuck up the sleeve of his jacket and was fleeing the scene of a street fight where he
had just threatened to use it on someone.
This time it fit the weapon definition and a conviction was registered.

So use common sense. If you have to think twice as to whether or not your carrying a knife could get you in trouble you probably
should leave it at home.
I know this seems like a broad statement but hell even I have to second guess myself and
I'm covered by the permit I described in an earlier post as well as certain exemptions as a police officer.

j.z.
 
Sorry to ask about this again but you didn't cover it yet.

How do you think that the public meeting thing would work in a medieval reinactment/living history type of gathering.

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Mad Matt's Armoury
 
Matt sorry I omitted that bit.
The only item that I can think of off hand that would be affected during a medievil re-enactment would be the "mace".
If you wanted to go by the letter of the law
any use of one at such an event would be an offence. A special permit could be obtained by showing a specific need for a theatrical performance. (For example the T.V. series
Highlander which was filmed in Vancouver has used maces and a permit was granted.)
Also nunchaku sticks are prohibited weapons however permits have, I am told, been granted to well established martial arts studios for display purposes of antique versions.
It all falls back to the individual circumstances and unfortunately or not the attitude or opinion of the individual officer dealing with the matter.
I personally would be prone to give the benefit of the doubt to to a re-enactor at or on his way to such an event and caution him at the least or perhaps confiscate but not charge.
However if I was on a domestic call and upon entering the residence found a mace hanging just inside the front door readily available
to the occupant I would, (and have), lay charges.
Again you are not going to have cops running pell-mell through a re-enactment charging every one who has a dagger covered by a chain-mail coverlet.
jz

 
By mace are you referring to a weapon with a solid handle and some kind of weighted blunt striking area at the end. Or sometimes spikes.

Or are you referring to a flail with a spiked or unspiked ball attached to a handle with a chain. This is commonly what people refer to as a mace but is actually not the case. A mace is the former.

Also there is a staggering variety in the design of different types of flails used for both farming and warfare in the middle ages. Are restrictions limited only to specific types or do they apply to all objects with a pivot point that could be considered to be a weapon.

A good example of this would be a grain flail. Usually fastened with a "hinge" and generally the hinge would be attached with languets to both the handle and the striking end.

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Mad Matt's Armoury

[This message has been edited by Mad Matt (edited 12-07-2000).]
 
This also being the origin of the nunchaku,
and several other martial arts "weapons".

T.
 
Matt. The mace I was refering to is also called the morning star.(ball and chain).
For a complete list of current prohibited weapons/devices I suggest you attend at the library and check a Criminal Code Part III, The orders in council. Order #'s 2,4,5,7,& 8 are of Particular intrest to Knife enthusiasts.
jz
 
I have to ask, where does Canadian knife law stand with respect to razors, straight or folding? I ask as this is a legitamate tool that men carry in their overnight kits while travelling.
 
Kraut,

Regarding exceptions, you mentioned as an example, nunchaku on display at a martial arts studio. What about MA training itself? Nunchaku are one example, what about a balisong? I'm not talking about the obvious no-nos like carrying, but say, something which is kept at the club, and for which there is demonstrable MA curriculum?
 
Apothocary:
There is no specific prohibition. Take it out and use it as a weapon and you're in a heap of trouble.
I am going to have to bow out of answering any more questions on a regular basis in this thread and ask for someone else to take up the job. It's not that I don't enjoy it but I am getting addicted to this infernal contraption and I am not spending as much time in the shop as I should.
I'll check in occaisionally and throw in my two cents worth though.
All the best through the holiday season and
use common sense with your edged tools.
kraut
 
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