Canadian Knife Laws

Hi Kraut; I just ordered a Kershaw assisted opening folder from the States but I am starting to wonder if it would be considered a prohibited weapon (switchblade). What are your thoughts on this particular knife design? Also, if Canada Customs opens the box, would I be in a heap of trouble or would they just confiscate it and call it a day?

Hugh

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Scraped, burnt, sliced, smashed. AHHHH, knifemaking!!!!
 
Regarding the kershaw asssisted folder kit.
I have been through all the cataloques that I have have and I wasn't able to find one so I will make an assumption that it is opened with one hand by means of a button or similar
attatchment to the blade. (NOT the handle !).
If this is the case it would be O.K. as far as my understanding of the current legislation. If you are merely using your thumb to pivot the blade open then it does not fall into the prohibited area. I would however be very carefull with a kit as how you fit the components will have an effect on the pressure needed to open the blade.
Too much polishing or sanding of certain parts or failure to properly tighten the components could result in the blade fit being sloppy or loose. This could allow the blade to be opened by centrifugal force and then it would become a prohibited weapon.
Note: Section 84cc specifically refers to this type of situation under prohibited weapons within para.(b).
Whether or not Canada customs stops it is anybody's guess. A friend of mine was coming up from the U.S. to attend a show a while back and an un-informed customs agent at Windsor declared all of his hunting knives weapons and wanted to sieze them all. This despite the fact that he had delared them as knives, (hunting,fishing,letter-openers etc.). It took some persuasion on his part and being able to provide the appropriate sections under the Code and definitions as well before they would admit they were not weapons. It did not end there however as they then seized half of his inventory claiming the handle materials were prohibited
despite the fact that they could all be purchased legally in Canada.
Until such time as we get more supply companies such as Eagle in B.C. I will be nervous every time I order from the U.S.

I am going to take a wild guess that you are military,(the "nom de plume" and being from Lethbridge). If so this brings a whole new aspect into it as the Queen's.R.&.R may have something to say about personal weapons and I have been a "civy" too long even quess what
it's definitions may be.

"UP THE REGIMENT" "PRO PATRIA"
Kraut

 
Hey Kraut; Thanks for the reply. You should check out the thread concerning "assisted opening knives" in the Canadian Connection in the Knife Community section. By all means add your comments. You sound like you have
highly practical experience when it comes to knives and the law.
I am not military, just a knife knut. I had an opportunity to play with a Kershaw Avalanche (the model I ordered - not a kit) and it was plain and simply a sweet folder. I just had to have one. So far the concensus seems that they are technically legal, just don't get caught with one on your person by a LEO.

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Scraped, burnt, sliced, smashed. AHHHH, knifemaking!!!!
 
To kraut - my name is Ivan. Sorry for the rude intrusion but I have a big favor. I was arrested last night after someone seen a starter pistol (fake gun) I had in my jacket. I was arrested downtown Toronto and charged with carry concealed weapon. I also had a 4 - 6" fold knife on me. What am I being charged for??? the knife or gun or both - on my promise to appear it only has one charge. thanks for your time - and your forum post proves not all LEO's are PIGs. thanks again. Regards, Ivan please reply at ivanalbery@rogers.com
 
i would like to know all laws that could possibly pertain to me in alberta. i carry an applegate fairbain covert. i would espeshialy like to know anythink about the laws in schools, im a student finishing high school. also does age affect how the laws are interpreted.
 
Most schoolboards have a no weapon policy on or near schools and they classify all knives as weapons.
I do not live in Alberta, but in British Columbia if you are caught with even a small folder, they will expel you.
 
Here's my question. I'm a toronto/ontario/canada resident, just to clear it up. I find all of canadian laws very vague, so I'm hoping to get some help. here I go. by the way, I have all my blades for SD but I can make up excuses for the smaller ones.

1) Are folder's illegal? It has a dent in the blade meaning it is supposed to be opened by hand, but I can still open it with a strong wrist shake. If it's on a clip in my pocket, is that illegal?

2) What about sheated/partially visible (the sheath is visible) 12" hunting knives? Bowie style. I have a 12" and 15" inch knives meant for destruction, so I can't really have an excuse to have them one me. I just want to know if they're classified as illegal weaponry.

3) Sheathed tanto? Visible and not. Is there any way it can be legal?

Also, I carry my current knife for SD, and it's easy to take out but not entirely visible. Has anyone actually been stopped by the police? I know they can't search me without a warrant, so as long as it's in my pocket and I dont take it out, can I get booked for anything?

Thanks for the answers.
 
that being said, is there a legal age in Toronto to carry a 3" folding knife? Abiding by all other possible laws, any age restrictions?
 
It is illegal to have any knife on you for SD, and all knives have to be visible. You are aloud to have anyknife on you no matter how big it is as long as it is considered a tool (you have a reason to have it). As for schools, especially high schools, knives are a no no. I live by Toronto and a knife is a minimun 20 day suspension, and you will usually get a record.
 
ok. I'll stick to my 3" pocket knife for "cutting rope and doing art projects" and I'll keep bowies for the car. I'm just asking because I've never been stopped by the cops even though my clip is somewhat visible. I've never seen cops search anyone in my life, especially if they dont have a reason to. They think I'm a bit of a jackass since they've got me on record for helping file a theft report, and then refusing to tell the cop my name since I wasn't a suspect or victim...long story. Either way, I'm just curious if anyone has actually been stopped by the police for whatever reason.
 
if you stopped by police with a knife and you have a good excuse they'll often let you off even if is concealed. But if you dont have a reason or say the worst thing "its for self protection" they can chage you with "carry concealed weapon" even if its in a case on your belt - they
'll say that your clothing covered it making it a concealed weapon. First rule if you get stopped by cops act dumb yet respectful. second is let them talk like its a school - bottom line is if you've got it for the purpose of self protection or a violent crime make sure you have a nice story eg. "cutting boxes, rope, art project, home projects, fishing ect."
 
ringedrazelsm.JPG


I ordered a Ringed Razel from the Graham Brothers about six months ago. Ijust got a call from Josh Graham, asking me about the legality of the tool. He had just had a conversation with another Canadian who said that it was illegal because it fell into the category of brass knuckles. I called the local detachment of the RCMP to ask them for an opinion. What do you guys think?

BTW, I want to give two thumbs up to Josh Graham for giving me a call on this matter. He could have just mailed it off to me and let the chips fall where they may.
 
tw said:
BTW, I'd like to add that, in my opinion,
saying "Aren't you glad you live in the
States" is really unfair given the WILD
variation of knife law from state to state.

Many U.S. states have far more restrictive
knife laws than Canada. A powerful example
of this is the absence of any sort of blade
length limit in the Criminal Code.

A 4" folder or fixed-blade carried in Canada
as a working knife is completely legal; in a
state like Arkansas, a 4" blade length would
be prima facie evidence that the knife is
being carried as a weapon.

T.

[This message has been edited by tw (edited 11-05-2000).]
Click to expand...


Yes, but I still can own a balisong only to flip it at home. This law is against collectors, not criminals.
 
Hiya Hondo, I'm the other Canadian in question. :)

This question has been brought up before, (see this thread for example) and it seems like there are Canadian knifemakers making Kerambits... so it's probably not illegal to own a Ringed Razel in Canada, but the question is that of carrying it. (I have a mid-tech Razel on the way, and if I were to order a Ringed one, it would be to carry it, so this is an important point for me.) Now, according to several sites, the following is a "prohibited weapon":

BRASS KNUCKLES
A device or any similar device consisting of a band of metal with one or more finger holes designed to fit over the fingers of the hand.

Now, I know that a Razel ring isn't anything like brass knuckles, but the law doesn't say anything about the intention of design of the feature. It was mentioned in the above linked thread that some people have been hassled about the ring on their Kerambit, with the above listed definition used as justification. Of course, it's arguable that a Razel is much more of a general-purpose tool than a Kerambit (which, as far as I know, was designed to be a weapon), and that would almost certainly work in your favor. I've not talked to any LEOs about this since I don't know any. What did the ones you contacted say?

As a side note, I might be being overly cautious here partially because I'm not a citizen, but a Permanent Resident, and would hate to get kicked out of the country because I chose to get a knife with a metal ring over the pinky finger. My wife would be pretty pissed, you know. :D The other side is that if I'm going to order my first custom knife, I want to make damn well sure that it can make it across the border.
 
Man, it is a small world...

OK, I spoke with an information officer with the Kamloops detachment of the RCMP. When first we talked, he was unsure about the specifics of the law, so he asked if he could call me back. When he did call back, we talked about section 24 of the criminal code. We talked about brass knuckles, and he asked me to give him a link to the website so he could take a look for himself. He went to grahamknives.com, and printed up a picture of the ringed razel. He showed it to his co-workers, and they all agreed that it was a perfectly legal knife. At this point, he told me that a full set of brass knuckles, or a knife with a full set of brass knuckles (ala the Argonne Assault) would be illegal. He also told me that push daggers were illegal. Then, we talked about municipal bylaws. He told me that he couldn't speak for every municipality in Canada, but that he hadn't ever heard of a bylaw regarding knife carry.

I checked out section 24 of the criminal code, and Bil C68. Nothing I found indicated that the ringed razel would be illegal.

By the way, this is my first custom, and I have every intention of carrying and using it.
 
FoxholeAtheist said:
Hiya Hondo, I'm the other Canadian in question. :)

This question has been brought up before, (see this thread for example) and it seems like there are Canadian knifemakers making Kerambits... so it's probably not illegal to own a Ringed Razel in Canada, but the question is that of carrying it. (I have a mid-tech Razel on the way, and if I were to order a Ringed one, it would be to carry it, so this is an important point for me.) Now, according to several sites, the following is a "prohibited weapon":

BRASS KNUCKLES
A device or any similar device consisting of a band of metal with one or more finger holes designed to fit over the fingers of the hand.

Now, I know that a Razel ring isn't anything like brass knuckles, but the law doesn't say anything about the intention of design of the feature. It was mentioned in the above linked thread that some people have been hassled about the ring on their Kerambit, with the above listed definition used as justification. Of course, it's arguable that a Razel is much more of a general-purpose tool than a Kerambit (which, as far as I know, was designed to be a weapon), and that would almost certainly work in your favor. I've not talked to any LEOs about this since I don't know any. What did the ones you contacted say?

As a side note, I might be being overly cautious here partially because I'm not a citizen, but a Permanent Resident, and would hate to get kicked out of the country because I chose to get a knife with a metal ring over the pinky finger. My wife would be pretty pissed, you know. :D The other side is that if I'm going to order my first custom knife, I want to make damn well sure that it can make it across the border.
Click to expand...



I think in this case, the holes that fits around the finger do not only help holding the knife, they can hit hard too. (type TRENCH KNIFE on Google image and you'll understand)
 
BRASS KNUCKLES
A device or any similar device consisting of a band of metal with one or more finger holes designed to fit over the fingers of the hand.

I'm not a legal expert, but I am an English teacher, for what it's worth. This description says that the hole or holes are "designed to fit over the fingers of the hand." Clearly, the finger hole in a kerambit or Ringed Razel does not meet this description, because its finger hole does not "fit over the fingers of the hand." It fits over only finger of the hand.

If I were to debate this definition, I would argue that it contains the phrase "one or more finger holes" so that it covers all possible configurations of knuckle duster, including carabiners, which have but a single hole. Furthermore, I would propose the presence of a ring on a knife is analagous to the presence of a ring on a pair of scissors. It simply adds to the utility of the tool.
imgres
 
Well, if an entire RCMP office sees it as "okay", that works for me. I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just want to make sure that I and my fellow non-violent knife knuts stay out of trouble. I would say that we should lobby to revise the knife laws to make sense, but if we were to do that, there is little doubt in my mind that they would become more, not less, restrictive.

As a side note... is it really six months to get a custom Razel? :D I might have to carry my mid-tech for a while!
 
It is indeed six months. However, when I placed the order, the wait time was closer to a year. It's been cut down because Josh has gone full-time.

Diligence and caution can only help our cause. I think your attitude is excellent. Now, order the knife, and encourage everyone you know to carry one. We'll start a silent lobby by all carrying our Ringed Razels.

Next, I think I'm going to order a stubby Razel, for carrying in Japan. There, fixed blades are limited to 6cm.
 
This thread is timely for me as I've been considering a Snody Deadringer (much smaller blade with a similar pinky ring) but have had concerns as to it's legality in Canada. I think it would be a great little EDC utility knife but it's obviously not going to happen if there's the possibility of jail time for it...

Just out of curiousity have any of you fellow Canadians ever bought, ordered or tried to order a deadringer?
 
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