Candor regarding the materials used and their sources in all categories of knife making.

G

greater

Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
1,981
I have found the lack of candor overwhelming when it comes to maker's revealing what materials they use, where it comes from, the quality level, and why they use it. I cannot help but think they are either ashamed to tell or trying to sell their stuff by means of deception to people who they know don't want to buy it. Perhaps both.

I am talking about stuff like handle materials (a real biggie) screws, metal pieces, steel sources, and labor. I do want to know quite a bit more than the law forces these maker's to reveal.

I can have a lot more respect for outfits that make absolutely no attempt to hide the fact they import or make cheap to marginal quality (at times pretty high quality) products from places like China and who openly express they could not care less about higher quality or supporting local labor than some outfit that meets the minimum standard by law for such things as origin labeling, using popular high quality materials that lack proper handling and quality control solely for marketing value to sell to people who they really know would not want it.

I see the same type of thing going on in the health food industry and other areas of business.

I am willing to give up a little and pay a little more for products that are well known to be locally made and good enough (often exceptional quality despite not being the at the top.) I am willing to buy foreign or lesser quality products from time to time but what I don't like is a flim flam artist trying to con me.

There are some things that I note. For instance the lack of a cooperation between local manufacturers and innovative designers who are forced to go to Taiwan where they will make whatever you want however you want it as long as you pay for it because local manufacturers refuse to tool up and make it for any price let alone a reasonable price.

I feel bad for designers that get the short end of stick who should otherwise get a decent cut of the profits when some big company makes a MASSIVE fortune off their hard work and ideas that went into designing the hot selling item. Even worse they are often scammed and left in the street. This is where I can understand the need to go to a big high tech factory in Taiwan who is willing to help.

Transparency is important for us so we can vote with our dollars. The only thing that keeps me from getting scammed when I buy health food is to crack out the magnifying glass and read the FDA required ingredients list. In the knife world not only is there no such list but finding out what goes into your knife is akin to embarking on a top secrete James Bond mission.
 
Last edited:
While I agree in theory, you are missing the key point....

We as a forum (and knife aficionados in general) make up a relatively small percentage of overall knife sales. The vast majority of uninformed, uneducated consumers have no desire to know the details. They buy a knife based on looks, and/or some YouTube videos.

Makers and manufacturers have no desire or need to be completely transparent, as it is not impacting their overall sales in general. Not to mention the maintenance involved in updating everything every time they change suppliers of a T8 screw, etc. It's simply not that important to the vast majority of people.
 
Last edited:
I'm flat out not going to take the time to list out where my supplies and materials come from. It's totally pointless.

If someone asks, I'm happy to tell them but in all reality, again, pointless. We buy mostly from suppliers for knife makers and that's about as far up the chain as most makers, myself included, are willing to go.

Personally, I don't really know or care where the supplies and materials came from as long as I'm obtaining them legally (to the best of my knowledge).

Ultimately, I bet the majority of our materials and supplies come from China or Russia at their origin. We might not like that but that's the way it is. What would one have us do?......stop making knives?

I don't have time or desire to investigate those things.

Now, I very much believe a maker has an obligation to disclose exactly what he does or doesn't do himself/ in house....ESPECIALLY when asked. However I don't believe he has an obligation to necessarily say specifically what shop or person something is outsourced to. But country of outsourcing/manufacture should be noted and transparent.
 
Like Shane, I agree with what you said in theory. I think it is much harder to produce that info than you realize.

Let's suppose a knife maker got his screws from Home Depot. If really want to know exactly where they came from you'd need to contact HD and it is possible they got them from a wholesale company, and they you'd have to contact the wholesale company to find out exactly where they got them from .... and so on.

There might be many points between a) factory producing the screw and b) the place where you bought the screw. If you needed to print all that info on a box, you'd need a bigger box or include a piece of paper with that info (ie. more printing). If you made the box bigger, less will fit on a truck/ship. This would add cost to the final product.

Companies just tend to say "Global sourcing". Like J.D said, most will end up going back to China.
 
Doesn't ESEE ensure that all the components are USA made?

But yeah, I agree with the consensus here. When I see a (for example) knife made in Golden Colorado USA Earth, I'm not really concerned with where the oil was refined that they used to lube the pivot.
 
Oh no I don't want to know where the oil that lubed the pivot might be refined (that would be nice to know though) maybe I have a morbid curiousity in knowing who is being a cheapskate and who isn't. Not really detailed but I am sure that is another way to paint the picture clearly of what I would like to know.

For example does it really have to be Chicarta or Carbon Chiber or are the original sources for locally invented materials still reasonably available ?

Keep in mind I do understand that at times there is no choice but to be a cheapskate. I can understand that. Transparency is important to me.
 
Last edited:
greater said:
Oh no I don't want to know where the oil that lubed the pivot might be refined (that would be nice to know though) maybe I have a morbid curiousity in knowing who is being a cheapskate and who isn't. Not really detailed but I am sure that is another way to paint the picture clearly of what I would like to know.

For example does it really have to be Chicarta or Carbon Chiber or are the original sources for locally invented materials still reasonably available ?
Click to expand...

The market bears what the market bears. This is just Business 101.

It's not about being a cheapskate - it is about gross margins. Any manufacturer (not just knives) will use the cheapest material in order to maximize profits. If no one complains and there are no recurring QA/warranty issues, then cheapest always wins - regardless of who makes it, or in what country.
 
Last edited:
To the extent that people want this (and see above, I suspect the absolute numbers of supply-chain weirdos like us is pretty small), it is also useful to remember that size matters.

Bigger shops like Spyderco probably have the weight and resources to demand component traceability, if they (their customers) want it.

But me noodling about in my garage, looking to buy 100 screws at a time? It is worth nobody's time or money, if it is even possible, to trace provenance. And if it were, then it would be me spending hours on the phone posing weird questions to purchasing agents about where screws come from instead of making knives.

Part of my day job involves dealing with the results of tracking the provenance of very different commodity artifacts. It is an enormously time-consuming thing to do - we employ, I think, 4 people to do it, and don't have massive headcount.

Doing this sort of thing is a lot more expensive than it seems like it should be to people who haven't tried it.
 
Last edited:
There are custom makers who make everything themselves, including screws. Be prepared to pay.

Aside from those customs, I agree with my BF brothers. Personally, I don’t care much where raw materials are sourced just as long as the maker uses it properly.
 
J. Doyle said:
I'm flat out not going to take the time to list out where my supplies and materials come from. It's totally pointless.

If someone asks, I'm happy to tell them but in all reality, again, pointless. We buy mostly from suppliers for knife makers and that's about as far up the chain as most makers, myself included, are willing to go.

Personally, I don't really know or care where the supplies and materials came from as long as I'm obtaining them legally (to the best of my knowledge).

Ultimately, I bet the majority of our materials and supplies come from China or Russia at their origin. We might not like that but that's the way it is. What would one have us do?......stop making knives?

I don't have time or desire to investigate those things.

Now, I very much believe a maker has an obligation to disclose exactly what he does or doesn't do himself/ in house....ESPECIALLY when asked. However I don't believe he has an obligation to necessarily say specifically what shop or person something is outsourced to. But country of outsourcing/manufacture should be noted and transparent.
Click to expand...
I'd like to know where your pliers were made before purchasing any of your products 🧐
 
Danny Linguini said:
Where’d they get the needles they stitched the @#$&*! carpeting with?!!?
Click to expand...
Yeah? What color is the boathouse at Hereford, then? Eh?

Bluntly I think this thread is fairly absurd. For common parts like screws, many makers will get their materials from a retailer, who got it from a distributor. The maker is not going to waste time trying to figure out exactly where the raw materials for each component comes from.

It's one thing to claim that your knife is made in the USA down to the screws when you know that some part of it wasn't. It's another to just make a knife and say the knife is made in the USA because you made or bought all the materials from USA suppliers. As long as someone is acting in good faith, then I don't have a problem.
 
Last edited:
Ron Sabbagh said:
There are custom makers who make everything themselves, including screws. Be prepared to pay.

Aside from those customs, I agree with my BF brothers. Personally, I don’t care much where raw materials are sourced just as long as the maker uses it properly.
Click to expand...
So a manufacturer who eschews "cheapskatism" will sell very few knives because customers are cheapskates.
 
I cant see being that detailed that I Care where the screws come from..at some point you just have to trust the maker that they know what a good and bad screw are. It's not like..say..zippers, where there's a good zipper manufacturer ykk..and if it's not ykk you know they went cheap on it.

I do care about being honest where the steel came from and where all the work and assembly is done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top