Canoe origins?

[veitsi_poika]

Double post (again)

 

[5K Qs]

Oops post

BF site is really herky jerky tonight, search isn't working and pics won't post.

I wonder if this particular thread is "corrupted" somehow. I noticed this morning (Saturday) that there were new posts in the thread, so I read them, but the thread title on page 1 never indicates that I've read all the posts. It continues to display the little black dot next to the thread title that usually indicates unread posts.
(Maybe there's a vast conspiracy the goal of which is to keep the origins of the canoe pattern hidden from mere mortals such as I am. )

- GT

 

[JohnDF]

Felt like carrying mine and sharing it today.

 

[veitsi_poika]

Felt like carrying mine and sharing it today.

I'd post mine but I can't post pictures for some reason. I was going to add some pictures last night too but cannot.

 

[mbkr]

One thing about copperheads is they typically have a clip or drop blade (or both) and all the canoes I can think of have spears. Anybody recall ever seeing a canoe with other than spear blades?

 

[veitsi_poika]

 

[veitsi_poika]

 

[5K Qs]

One thing about copperheads is they typically have a clip or drop blade (or both) and all the canoes I can think of have spears. Anybody recall ever seeing a canoe with other than spear blades?

Most canoes I've seen certainly have the standard spear/pen on opposite ends blade combo.
1. But I have a Schatt & Morgan #64 with smooth red bone covers that has a sheepsfoot (maybe even lambsfoot) main and pen secondary (thanks, Michael).


2. I have a large (≥ 4" closed) Rough Rider Christmas canoe with spear main and spey secondary.


3. I have a 3-blade black lip pearl RR large canoe/gunboat with spear/sheepsfoot/spey combo set up just like a typical stockman (if a stockman had a spear main instead of a clip - like a Case humpback stockman).


4. I have a 3-blade 1978 NKCA gunboat with spear/pen on one end and a spey on the opposite end.


5. I have a 4-blade Fight'n Rooster canoe with spear/spey on one end and pen/coping on opposite end.


6. Then there are the canittlers with whittler blade set-up on canoe frame. I have a couple of RR models with locking spear main and pen/coping on opposite end.


- GT

 

[mbkr]

Most canoes I've seen certainly have the standard spear/pen on opposite ends blade combo.
1. But I have a Schatt & Morgan #64 with smooth red bone covers that has a sheepsfoot (maybe even lambsfoot) main and pen secondary (thanks, Michael).
View attachment 1463391

2. I have a large (≥ 4" closed) Rough Rider Christmas canoe with spear main and spey secondary.
View attachment 1463395

3. I have a 3-blade black lip pearl RR large canoe/gunboat with spear/sheepsfoot/spey combo set up just like a typical stockman (if a stockman had a spear main instead of a clip - like a Case humpback stockman).
View attachment 1463396

4. I have a 3-blade 1978 NKCA gunboat with spear/pen on one end and a spey on the opposite end.
View attachment 1463404

5. I have a 4-blade Fight'n Rooster canoe with spear/spey on one end and pen/coping on opposite end.
View attachment 1463407

6. Then there are the canittlers with whittler blade set-up on canoe frame. I have a couple of RR models with locking spear main and pen/coping on opposite end.
View attachment 1463409

- GT

I'm guessing you like the canoe pattern
I forgot about the canittlers -and I have two of those. Still, with the exception of your S&M, all of them have a spear main.

 

[5K Qs]

I'm guessing you like the canoe pattern
I forgot about the canittlers -and I have two of those. Still, with the exception of your S&M, all of them have a spear main.

Good guess! I think I currently have 50 canoes.
And you're right - all but one have spearpoint main.

- GT

 

[pmek5]

My only canoe. A 1965-69 two blade single spring. Perfect size, and slim in the pocket.

 

[Bartleby]

My only canoe. A 1965-69 two blade single spring. Perfect size, and slim in the pocket.

These seem to be the oldest examples that are out there, does anyone have an example of one from before the mid 1960's?

 

[5K Qs]

Here's a post I ran across this morning in an old thread: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/canoe-pattern.640844/

From what I have seen, historically very few companies produced the canoe pattern. The early Case related companies (WR Case, Case Brothers, and Union Cut/Kabar) seemed to be the most prolific producers of the canoe pattern, though most if not all of ther earliest ones were the larger "gunboat" style in the 4" closed range.

Utica/Boker/Valley Forge made a very few...I believe that Levine shows an older Boker canoe made in the jack style with two blades at one end.

The pattern that we know of today as the Canoe is generally the Case 62131. For the period of the 1920's through the mid 1970's, I do not know of any other US cutlery company that produced a similar pattern. Case seemed to be the only one until about 1974 when Queen basically copied the Case 62131 with the canoe etching on the blade. From the 60's on some Solingen firms made canoe and baby canoe patterns.

Beginning in the 1980's some other knife companies began producing the canoe pattern in response to collector demand.

The sig line of the post didn't get quoted, but here it is:
"Steve Pfeiffer, author of the book Collecting Case knives, Identification and Price Guide, released in October, 2009"

- GT

 

[JB in SC]

Here's a post I ran across this morning in an old thread: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/canoe-pattern.640844/

The sig line of the post didn't get quoted, but here it is:
"Steve Pfeiffer, author of the book Collecting Case knives, Identification and Price Guide, released in October, 2009"

- GT

Steve is a BF member. I contributed some information on the Case Loomfixer in his last book.

 

[mbkr]

Here's a post I ran across this morning in an old thread: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/canoe-pattern.640844/

The sig line of the post didn't get quoted, but here it is:
"Steve Pfeiffer, author of the book Collecting Case knives, Identification and Price Guide, released in October, 2009"

- GT

Anybody know when Union/Kabar was a "Case related company"?

I'm not going to disagree with a guy, who literally wrote the book, but I never realized that Case and Kabar were associated. I spent the last half hour down the internet rabbit hole, and beyond a Case being in there by marriage, I can't find anything. Kabar doesn't mention it in their history on their webpage.

Anyway, sorry for the mini hijack, just read that and it made me go hmmm View attachment 1463983

 

[bladecollectorr]

I found this extensive post regarding canoe knives and canoes in general. It echoes the idea that canoe knives originated with equal-end jacks and then someone took a divot out of one around 1900.
https://iknifecollector.com/profiles/blogs/the-canoe-pocket-knife-an-appreciation

I grew up paddling Chestnut and Peterborough cedar-strip canoes. I enjoy all types of canoeing and the knives as well.

 

[JB in SC]

Anybody know when Union/Kabar was a "Case related company"?

I'm not going to disagree with a guy, who literally wrote the book, but I never realized that Case and Kabar were associated. I spent the last half hour down the internet rabbit hole, and beyond a Case being in there by marriage, I can't find anything. Kabar doesn't mention it in their history on their webpage.

Anyway, sorry for the mini hijack, just read that and it made me go hmmm View attachment 1463983

Union Cutlery Co was run by grandsons of Job Case, Wallace and Emerson Brown.

 

[mbkr]

Union Cutlery Co was run by grandsons of Job Case, Wallace and Emerson Brown.

Thanks! So there was no business tie in - associated by family?

 

[JB in SC]

Thanks! So there was no business tie in - associated by family?

Doesn't appear to be.

There was a Union Knife Works run by Platt Family members for a few years (1911-1913) but the two companies were not related.