so whers the evidence that they are better???? Iv seen them put through the same tests as a cheap cs piece and fail them with ease. unless you have some pics of them being hit twisted pryed and thrown I would love to see them , everyone SAYS they are good but havent seen anyone stepping up to back that claim have you??? any time I ask those benchmaders to back up their stuff they back off , why is that you think??? you want a real knife buy a custom you want a thing to open your mail buy whatever is sharp. you like butterflys on you stuff more power to you, I dont and wont again. as far as im concerned no one makes a nicer bali than bm...but in a folder I think not. SEMPER FI:grumpy: