Can't get knives hair popping sharp. Should I buy an extra waterstone?

[DeadboxHero]

Nah man, u don't need to form a burr. Most do and many books say you should, but I don't agree with that at all. It wastes steel to purposely form a burr, just like it wastes stones if you flatten them. When you know when to stop working one side you know... obviously you need to inspect the edge and test it on mediums for inconsistencies. You can get amazing results by simply sharpening heel-to-tip or vice versa, going along the line of the edge, for instance, which doesn't leave a burr, since you're knocking off all the material in the stroke... well OK, perhaps there is some minute burr or dust at the very tip or heel, depending on the action, but nowhere else. Stick it into a medium and its gone, but there is no need to use a burr as a guide or reference.

There's no point for me to show you any pics of my results. I have nothing to prove out of honor or whatever on the internet to strangers, but for the sake of argument, just assume for a second that I'm getting extremely high end results and that what I'm on about might be worth considering. Just offering what I know works, and, yeah you're right about one thing — the paper doesn't lie.

Right on, its just hard to assume, its the internet after all.
Take care.
Shawn

 

[lonestar1979]

I would get inexpensive Norton silicon carbide stone coarse-fine,and sharpen on that.You can get razor sharp knives just on that stone!

 

[pjwoolw]

I have found the King 6k to be a terrible stone for edge-leading strokes.

There are couple King 6K stones that I know of. One will have a plastic base. That is the softer stone. The other is harder, a much better stone, and has a wood base.

 

[ToddS]

There are couple King 6K stones that I know of. One will have a plastic base. That is the softer stone. The other is harder, a much better stone, and has a wood base.

Thanks, I have the 1k/6k combo and was not aware there was another 6k version. The stone I have works perfectly well with edge trailing strokes... if you stop before the burr gets too large. Edge-leading strokes microchip the apex to the keenness of a 1k Chosera (ie not shaving level). I assume this is due to loose grit particles, however honing under running water does not help.

 

[Mustico]

Your stones are sufficient. Practice makes perfect. And, don't be afraid of using the 250, just take it slow at first.

 

[777zzz]

Wow, thanks for all the info. I was having particular trouble with a Wood Jewell puukko that came with a secondary edge bevel. I think it's a Lauri blade. After reading these posts and watching yet more sharpening videos I was able to grind off the secondary bevel and get the knife shaving sharp.

I finish with a Stropman four sided strop loaded with three types of compound. The final honing I tried today was on my car window, and it sharpened the edge more than the strop did. So I will continue using the car window technique.

I will experiment with both forming burrs and sharpening without forming burrs to see what I like best. When sharpening without forming a burr how do you know when to grind the other side? Can you tell which side needs more work just by comparing each side with the naked eye, or does magnification help a lot?

 

[bucketstove]

I will experiment with both forming burrs and sharpening without forming burrs to see what I like best.
When sharpening without forming a burr how do you know when to grind the other side?
Can you tell which side needs more work just by comparing each side with the naked eye, or does magnification help a lot?

if you cut off the weakened/damaged edge metal by cutting into the stone at 90 degrees, it leaves a reflective surface which you can see with a strong light like a flashlight

you grind one side for 50 strokes then the other side for 50 strokes, then check to see if you still have reflection
as reflection beings to disappear you start using less strokes per side
you keep doing this until there is no more reflection
once you cannot see reflection anymore,
you increase angle and do single alternating passes to get shaving sharp
its no big deal if you raise a burr, just cut it off, but the goal is not to raise one ... but its kinda (relatively) slow to keep checking reflections (you have to wipe the blade)

this is method I use more or less how to sharpen a knife - Joe Calton , all edge leading passes
- cut into stone to remove weakened metal and make dull edge reflective
- grind at 10dps fast scrubbing passes until reflection is gone or you raise a tiny burr
- then do alternating passes at 10dps to weaken the burr and stand it up
- then increase angle (at least double original) and cut off burr with 1-4 alternating passes per side at least , so 20dps could work, 30dps is better, 40dps also works (no brainer), don't go past 40
- then microbevel with 1-20 light alternating passes at 15dps (or even 11dps or 12dps or 20dps )
- check shaving ability , cutting newspaper
- then cut off the burr again with double angle (optional, cut off the burr you cant feel or see)
- then microbevel again

 

[Gaston444]

Use coarse diamond hones initially for the main work, with a shallow very diagonal pulling stroke towards the edge. Diamond hones lose "bite" quickly, but stay flat while they still have bite: Lack of true flatness may be your problem with stones, especially on stainless... Shallow diagonal means close to paralell to the edge, so that the angle stays evenly flat more easily by preventing lateral rocking motions, which gets easier the more paralell to the edge you move. Smooth stones are good for breaking off the wire edge at 70-90° and finishing, once the bevel is established. Don't go full paralell on coarse, as coarse striations may weaken the edge's apex.

Check for the burr with the top of the nail: Any burr will grab a tiny shave of nail when the nail should slide past smoothly. Finishing work should be very light handed at a very slightly higher angle than the coarse initial V, to make sure you don't just polish the edge's side on finishing, but instead really touch the actual apex. Check for recurring burrs even with light passes, as a tiny one often wants to flip flop: One very light 70 to 80° pass on fine grit will cause a steep wire edge bend that a shallow subsequent pass on the same side will break off.

Establishing the rough initial V bevel with stones on stainless I always found to be near-impossible: Unless the coarse stone is exceptionally good and stable, the coarse stone loses its true flatness faster than the stainless edge side is flattened...: You then try to flatten towards a sound V with an unsound surface... The initial V must be sound and flat-sided before anything finer than coarse is used, or the edge will never perform...

Gaston

 

[n7titan]

I finish with a Stropman four sided strop loaded with three types of compound. The final honing I tried today was on my car window, and it sharpened the edge more than the strop did. So I will continue using the car window technique.

The car window will be a lower "grit" than your compounds, so if the car window made it sharper than your strop than that means you weren't apexed enough.
Did you try the stop again after the window? The window most likely brought it closer to a full apex for you, now try the strop:thumbup:

Keep at it bud. Once you can reliably apex, all that your knives will need for months on end is touch ups on the strop to stay hair popping sharp.

 

[aesmith]

I can sharpen edge leading on my King 6000, but I know what was meant, it's really easy to dig in. It's too soft for knives really, in my opinion.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Keep in mind that when working with waterstones the slurry is an important variable to consider. As is overall flatness. Have you been sharpie checking your edges? Also look at the corners of your stone, its not difficult, especially with a really soft stone like a king, to be clipping your edge with the corner of the stone and not really notice it. If the edges have a nice chamfer to them, you know that isn't happening.

Go slow, get a good edge off your 250 and 1k first, then work on the 6.

 

[LKH9]

No offense, but why worry about it being "hair popping sharp"? Who shaves with a pocket or hunting knife? I go to 1000 grit Smith's ceramic with all my users (including kitchen) and they will slice newsprint with easy and holds their edge. Don't get OCD about sharpness.
Rich

Being able to shave hair means your sharpening skill has passed the basic test.The basic requirement of being a knifenut.

 

[HwangJino]

Also, no one mentions that all hair are not equal...

I can get my knives to pop Caucasian hair, but not asian hair.
Arm hair is different, it's very thin.

 

[fsatsil]

Also, no one mentions that all hair are not equal...

I can get my knives to pop Caucasian hair, but not asian hair.
Arm hair is different, it's very thin.

+1
But be careful people might start calling your knives racist!

 

[n7titan]

... i'm asian. Does that mean i've been mistakenly lowballing my sharpening skills?!

JK, it's simple enough to do another cutting test to confirm the level of refinement. Still gotta practice..

 

[LKH9]

Then maybe my arm hair is too thick for an asian, need to shave some other asian's arm hair to confirm my skill.