Can't Get Rid of Cloudy Edges

unit said:
What level of sharpness do you want to achieve?

It may have been a joke, but I would suggest that the Sharpmaker is used by many people to get edges that will pass muster with most of the gauges of sharpness posted on these forums (tree topping, hair whittling, etc.). That said, it is not my first choice for most sharpening jobs;)

Just sayin'
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unit, I respect you and your contributions to the blade community here very much. That said, I'm on my 2nd Sharpmaker kit (first one had a slopply rod holder slot on one side) but I want this kind of edge (below), just to say "I can do that." I don't think it could ever be done on a Sharpy. I could be wrong but I doubt it. :)

BTW, thanks to all of you guys for your great input and prime77 you make me sick with this edge!! :barf: :p This the result that drives me!

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cziv said:
but I want this kind of edge (below), just to say "I can do that." I don't think it could ever be done on a Sharpy. I could be wrong but I doubt it. :)
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I doubt it too (mirror edge) unless you go full pull on all rods up to UF and take a lot of time on each, then strop with diapaste. I would not even try it.
 
There is no question that a Sharpmakler, or even better, Crock Sticks are capable of of an edge equal to the grit size of of a similar stone. However they are limited to 15 or 20 degrees, and, unles one has incredible patience, they are best suited to a blade which is slready quite sharp and needs only final refinement.

I still use my Crock Sticks on occassion, but only for restroring the "crispness" of an already sharp blade, and only at the prescribed bevel angles.
 
prime77 said:
Cziv, great thread. You problem now reminds me of my learning experience with DMT stones. I like you wanted to get rid of the hazyness and get that mirror edge. I was doing the same as you and not spending enough time going through the grits. Each step is important for the next. Mine was not spending enough on the fine stone coming off the coarse. I thought hey I've got a burr I can move on to the other side then the other stone. But I still needed to erase the previous stone scratch pattern. I learned that you really have to spend more time on each stone has you work your way to the EEF stone. For me just took lots of practice.

Your bevel looks fine to me so you have a good technique. Some also say that mirror edges don't improve cutting performance. I personally like them for my knife use and they look really cool. DMT stones and pastes are great. With more practice you have edges that look like this.
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Nice :thumbup:
 
Its kind of a work-around, but stropping with SiC dust leaves a very bright, polished finish and refines the edge nice too. 1200 grit powder coming off of 1000 grit sandpaper or a DMT EF shines up the edge better than green CrO, very chrome-like look, sorry no pics.
 
zyhano said:
a bit :) I agree with eccvets about a truly sharp blade. The sharpmaker was a little cheeky since I have to resist a littlebit to his implication that only the paper wheels can get sharp edges. He dislikes the sharpmaker, I do not. The difference is, that I do have my technique down on the sharpmaker and he obviously doesn't (which is oke, sharpening is not a race/competition), so I can at least make a remark based on knowledge about it.)
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i never said that paper wheels are the only way to get a sharp edge, its the cheapest, easiest and best way I know of and yes, sharp makers do suck, sorry but they do. its a fact! the time, effort, price, and results are not worth it and i want others to know it (so sue me!).

belt sanders and better quality guided systems like the edge pro or wicked edge are also great but cost $$$ and take more time then I'd like. you can also use stones but the price of how many you need and the skill and time is again not worth it to most people as there are so many other, easiers ways to accomplish the same thing.
 
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You can get a stack of 8" DMT plates for the price of a wicked edge.
 
eccvets said:
i never said that paper wheels are the only way to get a sharp edge, its the cheapest, easiest and best way I know of and yes, sharp makers do suck, sorry but they do. its a fact! the time, effort, price, and results are not worth it and i want others to know it (so sue me!).

belt sanders and better quality guided systems like the edge pro or wicked edge are also great but cost $$$ and take more time then I'd like. you can also use stones but the price of how many you need and the skill and time is again not worth it to most people as there are so many other, easiers ways to accomplish the same thing.
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It's cheap, yes, I agree. You get sharp edges. yes. But the sharpmaker does not suck and it's not a fact that it sucks. Your statement has no value since it is not backed up and there's loads of evidence that they do indeed provide sharp edges. This will be the last in this thread about it by me.
That it is not worth it for you is something I also believe. So we agree on a lot. No need to sue :p
 
Gentlemen,

This discussion has been, and continues to be excellent, although for my taste is beginning to become just a bit heated.

I pray that one of the more knowledgeable members here will correct me if I've missed something, or have come to an improper conclusion.

In my personal perception, if a knife performs to it's owner's desires and expectations, whether those are limited to a basic utility edge, a razor blade plus edge, lovely aesthetics, or no aesthetics at all, then one is using the proper methods and equipment.

While it may be somewhat interesting to discuss the relative merits of the expectations themselves, it truly serves no purpose, at least that I can ascertain, to allow the discussion to become heated concerning the method used to meet those expectations.

As an example, I prefer highly polished, refined, incredlibly sharp blades on MOST of my knives. I therefore use somewhat exotic (and, unfortunately, expensive) equipment. However, if I were to be content with a very basic utility edge, I would purchase an inexpensive two sided India stone, and use my very limited freehand skills until it was sharp enough to cut whatever I needed to cut.

In my systen of values, there is no right or wrong way to sharpen a knife if the end result is satisfactory to the the user. (Having said that, and fully realizing it's intelluctual validity, it is still a very difficult concept for me to grasp emotionally!:p:D )
 
Ben Dover said:
Gentlemen,

This discussion has been, and continues to be excellent, although for my taste is beginning to become just a bit heated.

I pray that one of the more knowledgeable members here will correct me if I've missed something, or have come to an improper conclusion.

In my personal perception, if a knife performs to it's owner's desires and expectations, whether those are limited to a basic utility edge, a razor blade plus edge, lovely aesthetics, or no aesthetics at all, then one is using the proper methods and equipment.

While it may be somewhat interesting to discuss the relative merits of the expectations themselves, it truly serves no purpose, at least that I can ascertain, to allow the discussion to become heated concerning the method used to meet those expectations.

As an example, I prefer highly polished, refined, incredlibly sharp blades on MOST of my knives. I therefore use somewhat exotic (and, unfortunately, expensive) equipment. However, if I were to be content with a very basic utility edge, I would purchase an inexpensive two sided India stone, and use my very limited freehand skills until it was sharp enough to cut whatever I needed to cut.

In my systen of values, there is no right or wrong way to sharpen a knife if the end result is satisfactory to the the user. (Having said that, and fully realizing it's intelluctual validity, it is still a very difficult concept for me to grasp emotionally!:p:D )
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+1 I think that's very well stated. A good cliche to confuse things might be: sharp is as sharp does. I think Forrest Gump said that. In all seriousness though, I've seen amazing results from so many different types of techniques and tools. In the hands of a skilled practitioner, most any of the tools out there (barring crossed carbide, pull through devices) can put a great edge on a knife. When I demo at gunshows, I get to see knives sharpened on all manner of devices and it's taught me not to rule out any technology that's working well in the hands of the knife owner. I now a guy who can go out and get a couple pieces of sandstone, wet them, rub them together to get them flat and smooth and then sharpen a knife to a scary edge. Surely the Sharpmaker can produce some great results.
 
I spent 1/2 the day, day before yesterday getting the cloudiness out of my blade and when it was mirror enough for me I decided to put a 40* micro-bevel on it and somehow dulled the whole damn thing. I mean paper tearing dull - you guessed it on a Sharpmaker! :grumpy:

Yesterday I spent 4 hrs re-profiling it again to 36* inclusive. If anyone here has ever re-profiled Duratech 20CV then you know what a BEAR that stuff is - man that's some double tough steel!!

I'm going to end up with a 3" fatty if I don't stop sharpening my 3.5" XM-18! :o
 
Strange, you shouldn't go back to paper tearing, which implies a burred edge...
What rods did you use?
Dud you check the edge with magnification?
And are you sure it wasn't over 40 degs already? Why else would you need to reprofile after a microbevel. Plus those hinderers are pretty obtuse to start with, over 40 degs fo shizzle

On a related note, I finally got my spyderco UF benchstone today, which I ordered because I liked the UF rods so much lol!
It's pretty flat, can't wait to hone a str8 razor with it. Did my m390 bm 710 with it (partially, it's a recurve) and it polishes pretty well...spyderco makes some nice stones...My first spyderco benchstone, have to get used to it but so far, so good

Too bad cziv, keep at it, I know you're wanting to get that sharpmaker thing down badly now, don't you? ;)
 
zyhano said:
Strange, you shouldn't go back to paper tearing, which implies a burred edge...
What rods did you use?
Dud you check the edge with magnification?
And are you sure it wasn't over 40 degs already? Why else would you need to reprofile after a microbevel. Plus those hinderers are pretty obtuse to start with, over 40 degs fo shizzle

On a related note, I finally got my spyderco UF benchstone today, which I ordered because I liked the UF rods so much lol!
It's pretty flat, can't wait to hone a str8 razor with it. Did my m390 bm 710 with it (partially, it's a recurve) and it polishes pretty well...spyderco makes some nice stones...My first spyderco benchstone, have to get used to it but so far, so good

Too bad cziv, keep at it, I know you're wanting to get that sharpmaker thing down badly now, don't you? ;)
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I don't think you can roll the edge on Duratech 20CV with the 40* setting on a Sharpmaker, or at least it would be pretty difficult at 12 passes per side that I used. I just used the fine rods and no magnification.

According to the magna-guide, which I used to set the previous & current bevel, the setting should have been about 35* to 36*, but no way anywhere near or over 40*. Maybe I blunted it when I stropped it - I really have no clue. It's razor sharp again and near mirror coming off the xx-fine hone so I'm very happy to have it shaving sharp which is plenty sharp for an XM-18. I didn't storp it this time except for 6 light passes per side on 1 micron dia-paste.

I think I'll maintain this one & if ever needed send my other 2 to Rick in the future. My XM-18 CTS-XHP and XM-24 S-35VN have his original edges on them. It's simple enough to send them Priority mail. He lives 2 hrs away so they get there the next day and back in a few. I sure wouldn't want to bugger up my spre XM-18 or my 24.

I kinda don't have a lot of faith in the S35VN steel. It just doesn't sound like what should be on a beast of a hard use folder like the XM-24 to me. I don't know why Rick didn't stick CTS-XHP or the DT 20CV which are both much tougher steels - unless I'm missing something. :confused:
 
Keep at it, it can get frustrating chasing the perfect mirror edge. This took a VERY long time to reprofile from a very uneven and thick grind. I went ahead to the EF before I spent enough time removing the previous scratches and I started over. Freehand sharpening is a lot of trial and error, and I know I've made my share of errors starting out. DMT CAN and WILL get you good results free hand if you put the time in.

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230grains said:
Keep at it, it can get frustrating chasing the perfect mirror edge. This took a VERY long time to reprofile from a very uneven and thick grind. I went ahead to the EF before I spent enough time removing the previous scratches and I started over. Freehand sharpening is a lot of trial and error, and I know I've made my share of errors starting out. DMT CAN and WILL get you good results free hand if you put the time in.

View attachment 224356
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Nice work 230grains! :)
 
cziv said:
I spent 1/2 the day, day before yesterday getting the cloudiness out of my blade and when it was mirror enough for me I decided to put a 40* micro-bevel on it and somehow dulled the whole damn thing. I mean paper tearing dull - you guessed it on a Sharpmaker! :grumpy:

Yesterday I spent 4 hrs re-profiling it again to 36* inclusive. If anyone here has ever re-profiled Duratech 20CV then you know what a BEAR that stuff is - man that's some double tough steel!!

I'm going to end up with a 3" fatty if I don't stop sharpening my 3.5" XM-18! :o
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oi, half a day wasted? You can easily have gotten a mirror edge in litterally 2 or 3 passes on a paper wheel's slotted wheel (not exaggerating at all, 10 seconds max!).
 
eccvets said:
oi, half a day wasted? You can easily have gotten a mirror edge in litterally 2 or 3 passes on a paper wheel's slotted wheel (not exaggerating at all, 10 seconds max!).
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No offense man but some of us prefer to learn to put a nice edge on w/o the use of power tools. :)
 
eccvets said:
well its your time. :o
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Yes sir! I'm a newly retired guy and can now enjoy indulging myself in time consuming projects that bring me a lot of pleasure. One guy might want the nicest lawn on the street. I want to learn to free hand sharpen respectably. I'm not poo pooing the use of belt grinders & power tools. It's just very enjoyable to me to hand sharpen. ;)
 
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