can't seem to achieve edge for crap

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kevshin21

Joined
Jan 17, 2007
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hey guys I recently purchased an ontario rat-3 knife and a norton benchstone. It seems that the blade is not razer sharp so I decided to sharpen it (my first time). I have read around and the threads had told me to angle the knife until it "bites" the stone and sharpen it until it has a burr, is the burr the powdery gray stuff that comes out on the other side of the knife? or is that my stone? also it seems that after sharpening it, it still does not seem that sharp. What should I do? and the steel is 1095 not d2

edit: I just tried to cut those thin albertons thin popsicle cartons and it would barely cut into it with medium force
 
I would recommend saving the stone until you really get a feel for sharpening. I prefer a benchstone but i have sharpened a load of knives. Go get yourself a
details.php
. Ive used this to sharpen plenty of knives and achieves a great edge. Pop in the dvd and read some of the sections in the book that comes with it, and your all set! It works wonders.
 
I kinda want to do this freehand so I don't have to rely on systems, unless that is not a system (like lanksy) or how every you spell it.
 
You'll probably get a host of suggestions on stones, grits, angles, systems, gigs, strops, sandpaper, and whatever else. However, nothing substitutes for practice. Go to the local flee market and buy all the cheap knives you can afford. Practice with those until you can get a satisfactory edge with them, then go to your better knives.

For the record, I've heard not much but praise for the sharpmaker.

I've had good results with a lansky on O1, D2, 1095, and 420J2.

You'll hear little but praise for the edgepro.

Benchstones aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
 
kevshin21 said:
I kinda want to do this freehand so I don't have to rely on systems, unless that is not a system (like lanksy) or how every you spell it.
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That's the Sharpmaker..... freehand. What it is, is instead of laying the stone flat (horizontal) and trying to guage the bevel of the knife with the knife blade slightly askew from horizontal, the Sharpmaker just inverts things.

The stones and blade are vertical. The stones are slanted at either 30 degrees or 40 degrees. You hold the knife vertical and "freehand" slide it down the stones. Same principal as a benchstone, just an inversion (is that the right term?) of angles.

Now the Lansky and Edge Pro are not freehand systems. They rely on guides to guide the moving stones agains a stationary (clamped) blade. More accurate than a benchstone and, for major edge work, than a Sharprmaker.

I was concerned with "freehand" sharpening and asked in the Toolshed about sharpening. The majority recommended the Sharpmaker so I bought it, knowing in advance I would be freehand sharpening. All I can say is I'm happy I did. Of course, I later bought a Lansky so I could accurately rebevel the edge on the RAT3, but then went to the Sharpmaker to sharpen it. The first 60 seconds of video on the Shaprmaker DVD is very impressive. I can now do some of that.
 
You can also try coloring the edge with a black sharpie, letting it dry for a minute, and then sharpening again. You'll be able to see where on the edge you are (or aren't) touching the stone.
 
Left you some notes on the Toolshed forum in your question there.

ADD: I think the sharpmaker is great. But you asked about freehand sharpening with a stone. So that's what I addressed.
 
After getting proficient on the Sharpmaker, I was able to do freehand on the stones that come with the Sharpmaker. The transition was pretty smooth. +1 on getting the Sharpmaker. I don't think you'll become dependent on it, I think you'll learn how to sharpen easier.
 
A lot of brand new knives are hard to sharpen because the relief wasn't ground quite right or too steep or something. Sound like you probably need to hold the knife a little flatter to the stone. By the time I get one sharp, it will have a scratch or two on it. If I just have fits with it I'll start on the coarser side of the stone until I get it ground down to the edge at an angle I like.

Depending on what stone you have, you may be able to use it dry, but I usually spray some WD40 on my norton india stone.

Even if you want to sharpen freehand only, a sharpmaker or a lansky kit will help you learn to do that too. I have a lansky and use it sometimes - mainly to grind new angle on a brand new knife. After that, the stone is easier.

I've never used a sharpmaker, but have used many setups like it, but crappier. In the world of V shaped stick doo dads, the sharpmaker is the cadillac. But you can get the general idea from any of the crock stick setups - you'll just never get a knife sharp on the crappy ones unless it's dang near sharp already.
 
Yeah, What ZIP7 said. The Lansky or sharpmaker systems aren't machines that sharpen the kinves for you. They just get the angle for you. You sharpen 100 knives with them, and then you pick up a benchstone and it will all fall into place in your brain and you can sharpen on anything. I was lucky because when I was younger, when I started getting into knives,I went to buy a stone. I was in the sticks in M.O., and went to this Mom and Pop bait and tackle shop. They had Arkansas white stones. The white stones mounted on a peice of wood. But they came with this little peice of plastic that would hold the knife at a 20 degree angle. So I learned about the proper angle before I even put my first knife to the stone. After awhile I didn't need the peice of plastic anymore, and could just freehand anyknife by looking at it. The same exact thing will happen to you if you get a sharpmaker or other similar system. Now, years later, I can sharpen on anything, a rock, the edge of a car window, whatever I have. I still like a lansky type system to totally reprofile a good knife. Or a diamond block setting on the Sharpmaker rods. But you should Really get Sharpmaker. It is pretty cheap. Works great for anyone, and not only will it make your knives sharp.It'll teach you how to sharpen, and you'll keep that knowladge for the rest of your life.
 
Yeah the sharpmaker is a really nice set. I have had mine a long time, and still have the original VHS tape that came with it. Ive sharpened anything from scissors to fish hooks on it, also my darts. Out in the field i can grab a stone and do anything from touching up to re doing a whole blade because i started out sharpening on this. If you do get it, i do recommend highly watching the video before you go and think you know what youre doing. Then, when your confident enough and putting those hair splitting edges on your blades, use your stone! BTW, what kind of stone did you purchase?
 
It's been a trial and error system for me, getting the correct shaprness out of a dull blade. However, I did get loads of practice on junk knives before even attempting to do justice on the more expensive pieces. I finally found that the "V-sticks" system works best for my purpose. Only to eventually learn that its all about practising a system of consistency during honing; ie, exerting the same amount of pressure at a consistant angle on both sides. Lightening up the pressure on either side until the burrs fade away. That's the easy part. It's a different story if you need to make that chip go away. It's not impossible to fix, only far too troublesome for most.
 
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