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Cant Sharpen To Save My Life !!
- Thread starter Brendan
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Sarge
Good points, Firkin! And you're right, different applications can require different edges/techniques. I don't have waterstones (yet), but am intrigued by them. I actually did shave with a Malla once just to see if it could be done...
Ok, I'll bite. What's a Merkin?
Ok, I'll bite. What's a Merkin?
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- Nov 15, 2000
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Yep Yvsa's right as usual. Make sure that burr goes the whole length BEFORE you do anything to the other side. Here's the problem I sometimes run into with khuks--: its difficult to get an even burr along the edge simply because of hardness differences along the khuks length. I actually end up applying pressure (from handle to tip) like this: Softly----HARD-----Softly. The hard pressure being applied to the sweet spot that is hardest.
If you're lucky enough to have a properly hardened chakma, you can get a khuk shaving sharp using the chakma as a final step. I've run it along the khuk's edge so that only half its weight is resting on the edge until it would shave my arm.
I really would like to do the whole nine yards sharpening deal like Yvsa and Firkin someday, but right now I'm just to damn lazy.
I'm sure that Ashes'place knows what they are doing, but be careful of handing your khuks to some of these knife stores for sharpening. If you have an experience like some forumites here they might just ruin the blade while trying to polish the "chrome finish" off
Seriously though someone who doesn't know what they are doing with the buffer/grinders can mess up the hardening.
If you're lucky enough to have a properly hardened chakma, you can get a khuk shaving sharp using the chakma as a final step. I've run it along the khuk's edge so that only half its weight is resting on the edge until it would shave my arm.
I really would like to do the whole nine yards sharpening deal like Yvsa and Firkin someday, but right now I'm just to damn lazy.
I'm sure that Ashes'place knows what they are doing, but be careful of handing your khuks to some of these knife stores for sharpening. If you have an experience like some forumites here they might just ruin the blade while trying to polish the "chrome finish" off
Seriously though someone who doesn't know what they are doing with the buffer/grinders can mess up the hardening.
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Originally posted by MauiRob
I'm sure that Ashes'place knows what they are doing, but be careful of handing your khuks to some of these knife stores for sharpening. If you have an experience like some forumites here they might just ruin the blade while trying to polish the "chrome finish" off
Point well taken, MauiRob.
It is a good idea to make sure you know who will be handling your knife and that he/she has experience with it. We have 4 guys working for my dad (mostly honing) but he does all the hand-grinding and difficult stuff himself. The other guys mostly take care of the cutlery rental knives, which are ours, so we don't have to worry if anything happens to them.However, it does bug me when I hear people saying that professional sharpening will ruin a knife. I can honestly say that the opposite is often true; that we often have "fixed" knives that were messed up by self-sharpening. As with any skill, you just need to make sure you choose a person who has the right kind of experience and knowledge of what they are doing. Most old-time "grinders" have been doing this their whole lives. Look for someone like that.
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If you can't get it sharpened with all this help you're in trouble.
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LOL, munk!
that's like a strapectomy on a brassiere though.
RE: the whole nine yards sharpening deal-- remember, you only have to do most it of once unless you chop gravel or something. Practice on a harder karda first. I resisted using the flatstones on the khuks for a while. After I saw what evening out the edge did to my JKM-1, I knew it would be worth it. It helps a lot with the hardness difference problem since a couple of my khuks had the thick spot at the sweet spot. Those ones are a bit frustrating, but once the work is done with the coarse stones, much less time is spent on the rest.
RE waterstones. I love mine. I'd like to get some coarser ones too. But they are soft, and require frequent lapping if you want a totally flat edge. I think being soft is why they work so well, new sharp particles are constantly exposed, and you end up working in a kind of mud composed of new sharp particles and broken-down older particles. I've never seen anything cut so fast by hand yet they leave more of a polish. If you work almost dry, the mud just breaks down further, and you can effectively work between grits this way. I think they are like the Norton India stones, but softer, and they come in many more grits. A lot of the woodworking sites have information on them, I think I saved some links--if there is interest, I could probably dig them up. I've not used lots and lots of other kinds of stones, but I'm not spending much money on other stuff unless I hear it is better than the waterstones.
I've READ that merkins have been in recent use like in WWII europe by prostitutes to cosmetically counter-act shaving done to control crabs. Also some municipalities (I think DC was one) thought they would control nude dancing by outlawing exhibition of pubic hair, which a merkin was legally argued not to be. Tricky lawyers.
that's like a strapectomy on a brassiere though.
RE: the whole nine yards sharpening deal-- remember, you only have to do most it of once unless you chop gravel or something. Practice on a harder karda first. I resisted using the flatstones on the khuks for a while. After I saw what evening out the edge did to my JKM-1, I knew it would be worth it. It helps a lot with the hardness difference problem since a couple of my khuks had the thick spot at the sweet spot. Those ones are a bit frustrating, but once the work is done with the coarse stones, much less time is spent on the rest.
RE waterstones. I love mine. I'd like to get some coarser ones too. But they are soft, and require frequent lapping if you want a totally flat edge. I think being soft is why they work so well, new sharp particles are constantly exposed, and you end up working in a kind of mud composed of new sharp particles and broken-down older particles. I've never seen anything cut so fast by hand yet they leave more of a polish. If you work almost dry, the mud just breaks down further, and you can effectively work between grits this way. I think they are like the Norton India stones, but softer, and they come in many more grits. A lot of the woodworking sites have information on them, I think I saved some links--if there is interest, I could probably dig them up. I've not used lots and lots of other kinds of stones, but I'm not spending much money on other stuff unless I hear it is better than the waterstones.
I've READ that merkins have been in recent use like in WWII europe by prostitutes to cosmetically counter-act shaving done to control crabs. Also some municipalities (I think DC was one) thought they would control nude dancing by outlawing exhibition of pubic hair, which a merkin was legally argued not to be. Tricky lawyers.
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Thanks for all the info - back to the drawing (sharpening) board !!
I am going to order the Norton 175 stone but which one is better India Oil Stone or Crysolon Pike stone ??
Also someone posted tips on a good strop can anyone remember ??
Thanks
Brendan
I am going to order the Norton 175 stone but which one is better India Oil Stone or Crysolon Pike stone ??
Also someone posted tips on a good strop can anyone remember ??
Thanks
Brendan
Brendan -
Sounds to me like you're making this too hard on yourself. As Yvsa said, it ain't rocket science. Just concentrate on how *simple* it is, and you'll have no problems.
The way I do it, there are three stages; coarse stone/emery paper; oilstone; strop 'n' steel. From working blunt (ie I've taken the fine edge off in the course of normal wear and tear) to shaving sharp is about 10 minutes. Total outlay on tools & materials (excluding the oilstone, which I inherited... But you can pick up a nice old secondhand oilstone in any street market in the UK for about ten pounds British) is about a fiver.
Step one; coarse stone, aka 'scythe stone'; perfectly acceptable Chinese made ones are available in your local cheapie-shop for a pound. Or you can buy a sheet of medium-fine emery paper and wrap it round a rectangular block of wood. Go at it gently, concentrating on keeping the angle which the blade forms to the stone (a) constant (b)shallow (ie acute). Work down both sides evenly in the same direction, obviously (I always sharpen away from the point towards the handle). Count the number of strokes you use on one side so you can do the same number on the other side. When you think you're about there, look at the blade face-on. If there are any places where you can see it - where it's as thick as a human hair, say - that's a flat spot and needs work
Step two; oilstone. Put a drop of penetrating or sewing machine oil on the stone (about the size of a ten pence coin) and smear it evenly over the stone with your fingertip. Work the blade on the stone as you did with the coarse stone (concentrate on direction & angle) but your angle should be slightly less shallow, by two or three degrees. You should now have an edge that 'bites' when you lightly rub the ball of your thumb across it (use your common sense when doing this...)
Step three; strop 'n' steel. Your oilstone now has a slurry of grey oil on it. Mop this up with the rough, unpolished side of a cheap leather belt. Now lay the belt across the back of a chair, and work the blade up it, one stroke with one side, one stroke with the other. Again, open the angle up by two or three degrees. When you're done the blade should be sharp enough to slice unsupported paper with a draw cut. For the final edge, apply a steel - your chakma, if it's hard enough; but the round shank of a screwdriver does a great job IMHO - further opening up the angle by one or two degrees, alternating strokes one side and then the other as before.
That ought to do the trick. At all three stages, *don't* apply undue pressure; press down as hard as you would when pushing a moistened postage stamp onto a letter.
Simple as that. I learned to sharpen when I was twelve years old, and I've never had any problems getting an edge on anything. It's only difficult if you make it so...
Good luck!
Tom
Sounds to me like you're making this too hard on yourself. As Yvsa said, it ain't rocket science. Just concentrate on how *simple* it is, and you'll have no problems.
The way I do it, there are three stages; coarse stone/emery paper; oilstone; strop 'n' steel. From working blunt (ie I've taken the fine edge off in the course of normal wear and tear) to shaving sharp is about 10 minutes. Total outlay on tools & materials (excluding the oilstone, which I inherited... But you can pick up a nice old secondhand oilstone in any street market in the UK for about ten pounds British) is about a fiver.
Step one; coarse stone, aka 'scythe stone'; perfectly acceptable Chinese made ones are available in your local cheapie-shop for a pound. Or you can buy a sheet of medium-fine emery paper and wrap it round a rectangular block of wood. Go at it gently, concentrating on keeping the angle which the blade forms to the stone (a) constant (b)shallow (ie acute). Work down both sides evenly in the same direction, obviously (I always sharpen away from the point towards the handle). Count the number of strokes you use on one side so you can do the same number on the other side. When you think you're about there, look at the blade face-on. If there are any places where you can see it - where it's as thick as a human hair, say - that's a flat spot and needs work
Step two; oilstone. Put a drop of penetrating or sewing machine oil on the stone (about the size of a ten pence coin) and smear it evenly over the stone with your fingertip. Work the blade on the stone as you did with the coarse stone (concentrate on direction & angle) but your angle should be slightly less shallow, by two or three degrees. You should now have an edge that 'bites' when you lightly rub the ball of your thumb across it (use your common sense when doing this...)
Step three; strop 'n' steel. Your oilstone now has a slurry of grey oil on it. Mop this up with the rough, unpolished side of a cheap leather belt. Now lay the belt across the back of a chair, and work the blade up it, one stroke with one side, one stroke with the other. Again, open the angle up by two or three degrees. When you're done the blade should be sharp enough to slice unsupported paper with a draw cut. For the final edge, apply a steel - your chakma, if it's hard enough; but the round shank of a screwdriver does a great job IMHO - further opening up the angle by one or two degrees, alternating strokes one side and then the other as before.
That ought to do the trick. At all three stages, *don't* apply undue pressure; press down as hard as you would when pushing a moistened postage stamp onto a letter.
Simple as that. I learned to sharpen when I was twelve years old, and I've never had any problems getting an edge on anything. It's only difficult if you make it so...
Good luck!
Tom
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- Feb 13, 2002
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Thanks Tom, that sounds much easier for me than burrs and grit and all that - I'm not a nickinpoop I just cant sharpen blades yet !!
I think the main reason is a lack of proper equipment. Its hard to get stuff where I stay even in the shops you would expect to have such things
Siyabonga umfwethu !!
I think the main reason is a lack of proper equipment. Its hard to get stuff where I stay even in the shops you would expect to have such things
Siyabonga umfwethu !!
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2002
- Messages
- 2,737
Brendan,
Whatever's next , do try a marker pen and darken from the very edge about 1/8" in so you can see for sure where you are working. You can spend a lot of time working next to the edge and it seems like nothing happens. I used to.
Here in the US, many "regular" hardware stores don't seem to carry whetstones anymore. A store that specializes in fine woodworking tools like handplanes and wood chisels is usually better than even a cutlery shop. Why they are the only ones that still sell stones I don't know...
Maybe the same where you are?
Maybe the Norton information is in this thread?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210568
cheers.
Whatever's next , do try a marker pen and darken from the very edge about 1/8" in so you can see for sure where you are working. You can spend a lot of time working next to the edge and it seems like nothing happens. I used to.
Here in the US, many "regular" hardware stores don't seem to carry whetstones anymore. A store that specializes in fine woodworking tools like handplanes and wood chisels is usually better than even a cutlery shop. Why they are the only ones that still sell stones I don't know...
Maybe the same where you are?
Maybe the Norton information is in this thread?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210568
cheers.
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2002
- Messages
- 2,737
I assume you mean the use of the marker pen.
OK, you want to remove metal so the last milimeter or so of the blade gets thinner all the way to the very edge, right. If you're working the knife at too shallow an angle, you're removing metal farther away from the edge than you want. You will have to remove a lot of metal before the edge gets thinner. Too steep an angle and the knife won't work as well as it could.
How to tell? Just make black with the marker the place where you want to remove metal. If your work doesn't make the black go away, it's not removing metal where you want to. It helps you teach yourself what it feels like when you're working at the right angle. Often you can tell from the marks the abrasive leaves, but the marker pen really helps to see.
OK, you want to remove metal so the last milimeter or so of the blade gets thinner all the way to the very edge, right. If you're working the knife at too shallow an angle, you're removing metal farther away from the edge than you want. You will have to remove a lot of metal before the edge gets thinner. Too steep an angle and the knife won't work as well as it could.
How to tell? Just make black with the marker the place where you want to remove metal. If your work doesn't make the black go away, it's not removing metal where you want to. It helps you teach yourself what it feels like when you're working at the right angle. Often you can tell from the marks the abrasive leaves, but the marker pen really helps to see.
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If that means "It's a pleasure" I must admit that you have one up on me !!
In my entire life growing up with Zulu's I have never been able to get the translation for it !! As far as I knew the words or expression does not exist but then you always surpirse me !!
Regards
Brendan
In my entire life growing up with Zulu's I have never been able to get the translation for it !! As far as I knew the words or expression does not exist but then you always surpirse me !!
Regards
Brendan
- Joined
- Mar 5, 1999
- Messages
- 34,096
One last question: Can you sharpen a knife?
