Can't wait for the Tweener, so I made my own!

bush-haus said:
DISCLAIMER - I am no expert and all that I have learned has been through this forum and Youtube !! This IS my first knife...
Metal-working files come hardened as they are used to shape other metal objects. They must be harder than the steel they are shaping. In order to use one of these files and turn it into a knife, I had to soften the steel so that the file I use to shape it is harder and won't ruin the file after 50 cuts. So, you have to anneal the metal (taking the carbides out of the metal--the carbides are what make it so strong). Once you Re-heatreat the steel after you have completed the knife shaping, you are putting the carbides back. You do this by reversing the process you undertook to anneal it.
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Beckerhead #32
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Interesting thanks for taking time to explain. Your knife is freak'in awesome by the way.
 
That looks great! I've made a couple of from files and it was a lot of fun, really. Like you, I did the annealing in a portable charcoal grill. I did the heating for hardening in the same grill and quenched in used motor oil. I did my tempering in my gas grill as it has a temperature gauge (wife wouldn't let me use the oven). You're looks MUCH better than mine, but I stayed with the rough, home made type look.

As for the steel type, most files that I'm aware of are W1, W2, or 1095 steel. I've never heard of any files being made from O1. I know that Nicholson files are 1095.
 
Holy cow! If this is your first knife, I cant's wait to see what your experience will make further down the line. Excellent work!
 
Idaho Guy said:
What is "anneal" and why do you do it.
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Annealing softens steel so it's easier to work. I suppose if you don't know steel is hardened/hardenable, then that doesn't make much sense. Just in case, see the short summary below.

Steel used in cutting tools, among other things, is heat treated to harden it and make it stronger. That way it can be ground to a sharp edge and not bend or break when cutting things. Steel is heated to somewhere over 1400 degrees farenheit and quenched. I say somewhere over 1400 because the exact temperature is different for different types of steel. After quenching, the steel is very hard, and very brittle. It is then tempered (aka drawn) by heating to a lower temperature to soften it, but add toughness. This is generally between 350 and 1000 degrees F, again depending on steel type and the exact use for the tool. If bush-haus had not annealed the steel, his file would never have been able to cut it in his lifetime. Annealing involves heating the steel to an elevated temperature, above 1200 deg. F. and then slowly cooling it, as opposed to quenching it in water, oil, etc.

All the temperatures mentioned are highly dependent on steel type, for quenching, tempering, and annealing. Different grades of steel can have such a wide range of properties that some have to have a water quench to harden, while some can be quenched by holding them in front of a window fan. Time is an important factor as well. Some steels need to be held at high temperatures for quite a while to get the desired properties. Tempering, or drawing, is typically done for at least an hour, and I've seen as much as 6 hours recommended.

There I go again with another wall o' text.
 
cramsey3006 said:
That looks great! I've made a couple of from files and it was a lot of fun, really. Like you, I did the annealing in a portable charcoal grill. I did the heating for hardening in the same grill and quenched in used motor oil. I did my tempering in my gas grill as it has a temperature gauge (wife wouldn't let me use the oven). You're looks MUCH better than mine, but I stayed with the rough, home made type look.

As for the steel type, most files that I'm aware of are W1, W2, or 1095 steel. I've never heard of any files being made from O1. I know that Nicholson files are 1095.
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Thanks for the steel-type tip. The package did not state at all what type of steel it was made from. I do know, though, it came VERY hard, and was easy to Anneal, a HUGE plus !!
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Beckerhead #32
 
me2 said:
Annealing softens steel so it's easier to work. I suppose if you don't know steel is hardened/hardenable, then that doesn't make much sense. Just in case, see the short summary below.

Steel used in cutting tools, among other things, is heat treated to harden it and make it stronger. That way it can be ground to a sharp edge and not bend or break when cutting things. Steel is heated to somewhere over 1400 degrees farenheit and quenched. I say somewhere over 1400 because the exact temperature is different for different types of steel. After quenching, the steel is very hard, and very brittle. It is then tempered (aka drawn) by heating to a lower temperature to soften it, but add toughness. This is generally between 350 and 1000 degrees F, again depending on steel type and the exact use for the tool. If bush-haus had not annealed the steel, his file would never have been able to cut it in his lifetime. Annealing involves heating the steel to an elevated temperature, above 1200 deg. F. and then slowly cooling it, as opposed to quenching it in water, oil, etc.

All the temperatures mentioned are highly dependent on steel type, for quenching, tempering, and annealing. Different grades of steel can have such a wide range of properties that some have to have a water quench to harden, while some can be quenched by holding them in front of a window fan. Time is an important factor as well. Some steels need to be held at high temperatures for quite a while to get the desired properties. Tempering, or drawing, is typically done for at least an hour, and I've seen as much as 6 hours recommended.

There I go again with another wall o' text.
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Thank you to Me2. I knew steel could be hardened with heat and cold I just never thought about it being un-hardened :) thanks for the explanation.
 
I must say I'm really inspired by this knife making process. I have wanted to make at least one of my next 3 knives this way, ie hand files, sand paper, and a 55 gallon drum of elbow grease. If you want to try this some more, I have a short piece of A2 steel that is already annealed I could send you, 8" x 1" x 1/16". It's a leftover from a santoku knife I profiled from a bigger piece. After filing/sanding, you can send it out for heat treatment for about $10, including shipping. I also have a piece of 1095 that is profiled and partially ground. It's annealed from the plant as well.
 
Idaho Guy said:
Thank you to Me2. I knew steel could be hardened with heat and cold I just never thought about it being un-hardened :) thanks for the explanation.
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You're welcome. It's risky to assume people know things, but you could also insult them by assuming they don't.
 
me2 said:
You're welcome. It's risky to assume people know things, but you could also insult them by assuming they don't.
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That sums up forums in general as well! I try to walk the middle of the road on that.
 
That's pretty cool. I wanna do something like that to the spine of one of my knives. I'm just scared though.
 
MyWifeThinksImCrazy said:
That's pretty cool. I wanna do something like that to the spine of one of my knives. I'm just scared though.
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I was a little nervous at first as well. Then I thought, "there are more files out there if I screw this up!" I went for it. It's not perfect by any means, but I measured out what I wanted and watched a few YOUTUBE videos. There are a few that show details of how they do it. Try it out! Of all the things that I appreciate about this knife so far, it's the spine work. Once you polish the design and bring it to life.... Just makes you all warm inside :rolleyes:

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Beckerhead #32
 
You're a monster! That's awesome. Keep at it!
I recommend wood for your first handle. Micarta is more forgiving, but the dust is horrid.

18 months ago I was where you are now. Then I made drawings for a year. 6mo ago a friend showed me the ropes and knifemaking has become a top choice rec activity. I can't wait to see where you are 6mo from now. Post your WIP to the general knifemakers forum for feedback if you want it.

-Daizee
 
Very impressive first knife. Kudos to you and your work. Can you help me in the right direction on YouTube for the videos that showed you how to accomplish the spine work? You should have a warm fuzzy about it. It's very nice.
 
great work man!!

did you use a nicholson file?? if so it will serve you well..

love the detail on the spine, makes me all worm and fuzzy inside..

its going to break your heart when you heat treat though, all that polishing was for not..... back to the grindstone.. :)
 
Rowlock said:
Very impressive first knife. Kudos to you and your work. Can you help me in the right direction on YouTube for the videos that showed you how to accomplish the spine work? You should have a warm fuzzy about it. It's very nice.
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Thanks for the kind words !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVn1349pWD4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5qv6RHcIPE&feature=related

if you look up "knife filework" on Youtube, you will find some good videos here and there about the spine work. I believe the file work really adds visual value to the knife. Really makes it a peice of art !!
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Beckerhead #32
 
Battle Creek Knives said:
great work man!!

did you use a nicholson file?? if so it will serve you well..

love the detail on the spine, makes me all worm and fuzzy inside..

its going to break your heart when you heat treat though, all that polishing was for not..... back to the grindstone.. :)
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Thanks very much!

As far as the time spent for not... all I have is time. What's a few more hours with this thing on my knee right ??

arrowhd said:
Crazy impressive. Makes me think maybe I can do it too.
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You can do IT !! It truly is much easier than I thought. Yes it has taken me a long time to make, but that's because I have no machinery. If you have anything at all you have more than me and will get it done quicker !!
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Beckerhead #32
 
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