Carbon steel folders

[DMG]

AISI Designation system :: Total Materia Article

www.totalmateria.com

DESIGNATION OF CARBON STEELS AISI/SAE​

DEFINITION. Steel is considered to be carbon steel when no minimum content is specified or required for aluminum, chromium, cobalt, columbium, molybdenum, nickel, titanium, tungsten, vanadium, or zirconium, or any other element added to obtain a desired alloying effect; when the specified minimum for copper does not exceed 0.40%; or when the maximum content specified for any of the following elements does not exceed the percentages noted: manganese 1.65, silicon 0.60, copper 0.60.

M4 Molybdenum (UNS T11304) High-Speed Tool Steel

High-speed tool steels are broadly classified into molybdenum high-speed steels and tungsten high-speed steels. The molybdenum high-speed steels are also referred to as Group M steels.

www.azom.com

View attachment 2135057

I'm not a metallurgist, but I am a materials engineer.

Great. But if you want to buy M4 you are shopping in the carbon steel department.

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[knoefz]

The Mantra 1 & 2 are nice M4 folders imho

 

[DocJD]

How come there are so few modern folders in non stainless steels?

I'd guess that most folks just don't want the extra maintenance, on a carry / user type folder .

Stainless just makes sense on a folder ,for my uses at least .

 

[cbach8tw]

Giving the old hickory folder a try, so far so good. It is 1075. Holds an edge so far.older pics just to show it, used it at work and so far it meets my needs.

 

[cbach8tw]

Stainless does make sense for some applications too, less worry about maintenance.

 

[Delta-v]

I've been impressed with how rust resistant Cruwear is. But I still appreciate a good stainless steel for peace of mind in certain conditions. But I also appreciate high alloy steels when busting zip ties and the like. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Giving the old hickory folder a try, so far so good. It is 1075. Holds an edge so far.older pics just to show it, used it at work and so far it meets my needs.View attachment 2135192View attachment 2135193View attachment 2135194

1070/1075 is a very tough steel, often used in hard use tools like shovels and machetes. My Ivan Campos Scand iin 1070 is the sharpest blade I own.

 

[Blues]

For those arguing with knarfeng and using Larrin as their justification, the following tables are taken directly from Larrin's comparison of various steels:


Carbon and Low Alloy Tool Steel Ratings

High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings

Stainless Steel Ratings

K390 is considered a 10V class steel which is represented in the middle chart, above.

 

[CVamberbonehead]

If you want carbon steel, go traditional. Case makes a great knife, just saying. Come over to the light side! lol

I think modern knife folks just want more stainless steels mostly. Most people buying a knife dont want it to rust, and they will never take it apart to clean it because that is a pain. You dont pay hundreds of bucks to get a modern tactical wonderknife just to have it rust! Modern knives have lots of nooks and crannies to rust too, due to their take apart construction with all those screws to strip and washers and bearings and spacers and on and on.

If people want carbon steel, a Case is half the price, hand made in the US, beautiful and unique instead of soulless, and is easier to maintain (just keep it oiled and use it, you dont need an instruction manual for it lol). So thats why I think most moderns are not going to take off with carbon steel.

 

[Bob Denman]

For a fella who wouldn't know a modern stainless steel; from a rusty garden hoe: could it be that a non-stainless steel has some qualities that can't be matched by the high chromium stuff?

 

[akaMatt]

For a fella who wouldn't know a modern stainless steel; from a rusty garden hoe: could it be that a non-stainless steel has some qualities that can't be matched by the high chromium stuff?

In some cases with the “non-stainless” steels, you can get a very good combination of toughness and edge retention, at the expense of some corrosion resistance (looking at you M4 and Cruwear, among a few others). With many of the true stainless you get a very good combination of edge retention and corrosion resistance, at the expense of some toughness. I think this is a big part of why Magnacut is so exciting to a lot of people, myself included… it offers a decent balance of these three criteria in one package. They all have a trade-off somewhere, you just pick where you want to trade. YMMV.

 

[DMG]

For those arguing with knarfeng and using Larrin as their justification, the following tables are taken directly from Larrin's comparison of various steels:


Carbon and Low Alloy Tool Steel Ratings

High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings

Stainless Steel Ratings

K390 is considered a 10V class steel which is represented in the middle chart, above.

Interesting. It makes no sense to me that M4 has roughly 50% more carbon than 1075 or 1095 but is not a carbon steel, regardless of other ingredients.

 

[Blues]

Interesting. It makes no sense to me that M4 has roughly 50% more carbon than 1075 or 1095 but is not a carbon steel, regardless of other ingredie

It's just a way of differentiating between the simple low alloy steels, the tool steels, and the stainless steels. As groups become more populated, language needs to find a way to differentiate within a given category.

Otherwise, carbon steel would refer to pretty much every option. It's like when folks refer to the high vanadium carbide steels. Just a way of distinguishing between and within groups. (Simplistic answer, but generally the case, imho.)

 

[DMG]

It's just a way of differentiating between the simple low alloy steels, the tool steels, and the stainless steels. As groups become more populated, language needs to find a way to differentiate within a given category.

Otherwise, carbon steel would refer to pretty much every option. It's like when folks refer to the high vanadium carbide steels. Just a way of distinguishing between and within groups. (Simplistic answer, but generally the case, imho.)

Yep. I suppose I am a bit behind on the nomenclature.

 

[Larrin]

Interesting. It makes no sense to me that M4 has roughly 50% more carbon than 1075 or 1095 but is not a carbon steel, regardless of other ingredients.

What about stainless steel S125V with 3.3% carbon?

 

[DMG]

What about stainless steel S125V with 3.3% carbon?

I am glad you you are here.

How do we define carbon steel. Apparently not by carbon content so it must be a lack of other things?

 

[Larrin]

I am glad you you are here.

How do we define carbon steel. Apparently not by carbon content so it must be a lack of other things?

As others said carbon steel means only carbon and not other alloying elements. If alloy is added like Cr, Mo, V then it is an alloy steel. Silicon and manganese don’t count in small amounts. More than roughly 5% alloy and it is a high alloy steel. I use the terms low alloy tool steel and high alloy tool steel. So 1050, 1075, 1084, 1095, W1, and White steel are all carbon steels. 5160, 8670, 15N20, O1, 52100, and W2 are all low alloy tool steels, not technically carbon steels.

 

[GB940Rookie]

Larrin drops mic

 

[Bob Denman]

Larrin drops mic

As well he should!

 

[The_Iron_Joe]

For those arguing with knarfeng and using Larrin as their justification, the following tables are taken directly from Larrin's comparison of various steels:


Carbon and Low Alloy Tool Steel Ratings

High Alloy Tool Steel and High Speed Steel Ratings

Stainless Steel Ratings

K390 is considered a 10V class steel which is represented in the middle chart, above.

How dare you bring facts and logic into this!

I may or may not have previously saved those tables on my phone... Useful reference.