Carbon steel is great, stainless steel sucks.

T

TheEdge01

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Have you guys ever heard someone make a statement like this? I have heard similar comments more than once. I guess it is a common opinion among non-knife folks. Some people may not realize some stainless steels have a higher carbon content than some carbon steels. Have you engaged in similar conversations with non-knife folks?
 
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Well, it's true in a sense. Carbon steel IS great for making knives and stainless steel - meaning steel that really is stainless and won't rust - generally won't make a very good knife. Then there are a lot of knife steels with carbon that are very stain resistant, but a lot of people aren't aware of that.
 
Dr Heelhook said:
Well, it's true in a sense. Carbon steel IS great for making knives and stainless steel - meaning steel that really is stainless and won't rust - generally won't make a very good knife. Then there are a lot of knife steels with carbon that are very stain resistant, but a lot of people aren't aware of that.
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Oh yeah, I see what you are saying, true stainless steel is something like H-1. Stainless is basically implying that it is only resistant to corrosion, not rust proof.
 
There are definitely certain circumstances where that statement is true in as many cases where the opposite is true ("boating knives"). There are so very many steels even for sale on BF that most really have no practical experience with at all. Sure everyone knows the specs, but I'd venture a guess only experienced makers, chefs (or other professions using edged tools regularly) could give experiences why one particular steel is better/worse than another.

FWIW, I was scared to death of carbon steels, the maintenance, the rusting, OMG I avoided them like the plague. Now some of my favorite knives both kitchen and outdoor are carbon steel. I thought I knew the steel from reading and research, but only hands on experiences showed me the real benefits and drawbacks of the steels I was using. On the other hand, a few super steels (Stainless and not) I've bought over the years failed to impress and are now regulated to a drawer awaiting the exchange.
 
TheEdge01 said:
Have you guys ever heard someone make a statement like this?
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Only in your thread header. Not from anyone I have met in daily life. For that matter, I don't think I have ever had an in-person discussion with anyone about types of steel.

TheEdge01 said:
What are some misconceptions you have heard from non-knife folks
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I have found a tendency for people to think that their kitchen knives are better than they actually are because of the brand name or some chef's name they heard of on TV is associated them. When in reality they are just outsourced to a volume manufacturer overseas who stamps the company logo on them.

That's not so much a misconception as just falling for typical marketing tactics.
 
ndmiller said:
I'd venture a guess only experienced makers, chefs (or other professions using edged tools regularly) could give experiences why one particular steel is better/worse than another.
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Absolutely agreed, and I'd likely loop myself into that grouping. If a blade weren't stamped and I didn't know the specs, I'd have no way to tell the difference between S30v, HXP, or probably most other "super steels" maybe with the exception of being able to differentiate the carbon vs. stainless steels based on whether they develop a patina.
These days I've stepped my collection back a little and I actually avoid super-steels for the most part. For my uses, I really hit my stride at D2, VG10 and 154cm. Anything "fancier" that is wasted on me.
 
jc57 said:
I have found a tendency for people to think that their kitchen knives are better than they actually are because of the brand name or some chef's name they heard of on TV is associated them. When in reality they are just outsourced to a volume manufacturer overseas who stamps the company logo on them.
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Is that really any different than a weekend camper thinking his Bear Grylls knife is the greatest because it has his name on it, despite being made of garbage? Or for that matter, any body doing anything with outdoors equipment that has the "Duck Dynasty" logo on it?
People fall for sponsorship nonsense all the time. But having a Duck Dynasty t shirt doesn't make you a water fowler, any more than eating Wheaties makes you an olympian, or carrying a Gerber BG knife makes you a survivalist, or having Emeril Lagasi knives makes you a chef.
 
jc57 said:
Only in your thread header. Not from anyone I have met in daily life. For that matter, I don't think I have ever had an in-person discussion with anyone about types of steel.


I have found a tendency for people to think that their kitchen knives are better than they actually are because of the brand name or some chef's name they heard of on TV is associated them. When in reality they are just outsourced to a volume manufacturer overseas who stamps the company logo on them.

That's not so much a misconception as just falling for typical marketing tactics.
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Yeah, knives are usually one of those “You get what you pay for “ items. My wife likes Rada Cutlery kitchen knives, they are pretty decent but I would like to see her upgrade.
 
19-3ben 19-3ben No difference. As I said, just people falling for typical marketing tactics. "Halo effect" I believe they call it.

I am willing to bet that a lot of knife misconceptions that "non-knife" people have are created by marketing tactics. Like people thinking that "surgical steel" is a specific thing, and that it is something that they need in products other than scalpels and forceps.
 
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TheEdge01 said:
Oh yeah, I see what you are saying, true stainless steel is something like H-1. Stainless is basically implying that it is only resistant to corrosion, not rust proof.
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Except that H-1 is, while rust proof, not technically steel. So it cannot be a "true stainless steel." Misconception on your part.
 
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TheEdge01 said:
What are some misconceptions you have heard from non-knife folks?
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As for non-knife folks and their conclusions about knives;

1) They rarely have "misconception." They have a different angle on the importance of certain characteristics of knives then knife fanatics to. They may think "This gas station knife is good." That's not a misconception...the knife is perfectly fine and usable for them and that is all they want.

2) And, instead of just opening a thread to demean people who aren't as passionate about knives and everything about them, I find it more effective and constructive to share my opinion/knowledge with them in the least obnoxious way possible. Remember, someone, probably many people, did just the same for you at some point.
 
marcinek said:
As for non-knife folks and their conclusions about knives;

1) They rarely have "misconception." They have a different angle on the importance of certain characteristics of knives then knife fanatics to. They may think "This gas station knife is good." That's not a misconception...the knife is perfectly fine and usable for them and that is all they want.

2) And, instead of just opening a thread to demean people who aren't as passionate about knives and everything about them, I find it more effective and constructive to share my opinion/knowledge with them in the least obnoxious way possible. Remember, someone, probably many people, did just the same for you at some point.
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My post isn’t demeaning anyone, I’m simply asking if anyone has ever had a similar conversation.
 
marcinek said:
Except that H-1 is, while rust proof, not technically steel. So it cannot be a "true stainless steel." Misconception on your part.
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Actually, the information I read on the alloy came from a source that referred to it as a knife steel. Since steel is a combination of iron and carbon I will admit that it is a misconception on my part. I’m not perfect and don’t claim to be, and the purpose of my thread isn’t intended that way.
 
I've only ever read anyone say that only carbon steel knives are good and stainless is bad in a couple different books about camping/outdoor equipment. And I'm guessing the writer(s) formed that opinion based on experiences they (or whoever may have mentored them) had back in the 1950s to maybe early '70s, when many cheap, usually no-name knives stamped 'stainless' were often soft, chrome-finished steels(?) that would barely take an edge, much less keep it. They also say that stainless blades are too hard (one book I saw said next to impossible) to sharpen. Then that opinion stuck, and the writer(s) stuck with whatever has worked for them (straight carbon steel knives).

It's an opinion; one which has no more (or less) validity than the opinion of those who claim that only super steels are useful, and all the steels that came before them throughout the decades and centuries are 'crappy'.

Jim
 
LastRodeo said:
Some people just like to make polarizing statements to get attention.
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Why are you calling me out like that? It hurts . . . nah, I'll wear it.

Have I mentioned recently that Emerson knives are poorly constructed, CRK knives are overrated, Lynn Thompson is a marketing genius, and that Shirogorovs are overpriced and their action isn't any more amazing than piles of other less expensive knives?
 
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