Carbon steel is great, stainless steel sucks.

Having looked further, H1's main ingredients are .15%C. 14%Cr, .5Mo, 6%Ni, 2%Mn, .1%N,3%Si. It has excellent salt water resistance but low wear resistance and low edge holding. The only thing it is good for is use in a salt water environment. It will be far outperformed by S30V, S35VN, M390. Elmax, and a host of other Stainless Steels. That's why I make all my knives of S35VN, M390, and, for kitchen use, NitroV
 
tim37a said:
marrenmiller marrenmiller - please don't insult me with some first grade explanation. What is the alloy?
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I think he explained it quite well. The steel we use in knives use carbon of varying amounts in alloys to make them hard, tough, and wear resistant. H-1 is made with a different process, and the alloy uses nitrogen instead of carbon to make it a usable material for knives. It does contain a small amount of carbon, but it's not used in this alloy the same way typical steels use carbon. Thus, you can call it a steel, but metallurgically speaking, it's not exactly steel. The classical definitions of steel were made long before these high-tech alloys came about.

Arguing whether H-1 is actually "steel" or not is really rather pedantic. It's mostly iron, but with carbon, nitrogen, and other elements added in a special way that makes it a workable knife blade material that doesn't rust or corrode except in the most extreme of circumstances.

Compare this to Stellite 6K or Talonite, which are dendritic cobalt alloys, rather than steels. Even then, they'll sometimes be referred to as steels, since they're shiny silver blades.
 
tim37a said:
Having looked further, H1's main ingredients are .15%C. 14%Cr, .5Mo, 6%Ni, 2%Mn, .1%N,3%Si. It has excellent salt water resistance but low wear resistance and low edge holding. The only thing it is good for is use in a salt water environment.
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Use your imagination more. Spyderco's Salt series is very popular with people that don't go anywhere near salt water. The FRN handled folders are favorites of runners and cyclists for their light weight and rust-free blades. They make a great toolbox/tacklebox/glovebox knife because the owner doesn't have to worry that it's not kept clean and dry. And of course, anybody working on the water (fishing, rafting, sailing, etc) will appreciate the stainlessness whether on salt water or fresh. I myself have been using Salt folders for years at work because I don't have to worry about it getting wet or gunky and rusting. Plus I sweat a lot outside during the 100-110° Tucson summers.
 
Also, completely off topic (sorta) the fact that H1 turns out to be work hardening makes it a good candidate for serrated knives, as it gives it a sort of performance boost, as well as limiting the need to sharpen the complex shape. Where as other steels have to make more of a compromise, either being harder to initially grind, or sacrificing hardness and relying more on the serration to keep it reasonable to sharpen. It sort of forces the play, as it were.
 
Actually, H-1 is an excellent blade steel, it takes a nice keen edge very easily, and the plain edge version in my experience has decent edge retention.
 
gadgetgeek said:
Also, completely off topic (sorta) the fact that H1 turns out to be work hardening makes it a good candidate for serrated knives, as it gives it a sort of performance boost, as well as limiting the need to sharpen the complex shape. Where as other steels have to make more of a compromise, either being harder to initially grind, or sacrificing hardness and relying more on the serration to keep it reasonable to sharpen. It sort of forces the play, as it were.
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H1 is cool stuff:

"Nate,

When Crucible did micro hardness testing on the serrated H1, they said it was running about 68.

sal"

-:eek:
 
Basically it comes down to some people like "shiney stuff" and can't stand patina. Usually they don't/can't do maintenance. Each steel offers something and lacks something or else they would all be made with the same steel. 3v, Cru Wear, A2 all feel the same "sharpness" to me. Getting it there and keeping it, plus the "shiney" factor to me are the difference.
 
tim37a said:
Having looked further, H1's main ingredients are .15%C. 14%Cr, .5Mo, 6%Ni, 2%Mn, .1%N,3%Si. It has excellent salt water resistance but low wear resistance and low edge holding. The only thing it is good for is use in a salt water environment. It will be far outperformed by S30V, S35VN, M390. Elmax, and a host of other Stainless Steels. That's why I make all my knives of S35VN, M390, and, for kitchen use, NitroV
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Meanwhile, in REAL life , are the zillion happy Spyderco H1 users . :rolleyes:
 
I'm 57 and have carried and used knives most of that time. Can't recall hearing another saying carbobn steel is great and stainless sucks. I've certainly heard of others' preferences but never that blanket statement from either non-knife folks or knife folks.
 
James Y said:
I've only ever read anyone say that only carbon steel knives are good and stainless is bad in a couple different books about camping/outdoor equipment. And I'm guessing the writer(s) formed that opinion based on experiences they (or whoever may have mentored them) had back in the 1950s to maybe early '70s, when many cheap, usually no-name knives stamped 'stainless' were often soft, chrome-finished steels(?) that would barely take an edge, much less keep it. They also say that stainless blades are too hard (one book I saw said next to impossible) to sharpen. Then that opinion stuck, and the writer(s) stuck with whatever has worked for them (straight carbon steel knives).

It's an opinion; one which has no more (or less) validity than the opinion of those who claim that only super steels are useful, and all the steels that came before them throughout the decades and centuries are 'crappy'.

Jim
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Or experiences they had comparing the carbon steels they used for decades to the first stainless steel knives.
George Washington Sears, AKA "Nessmuk" (1821-1890) for instance, was writing long before stainless steel knives were made.
I'm not sure if he ever saw a stainless steel knife. I think he died before they became available.
Horace Kepheart (1862-1931) was using carbon steel knives for decades before the first stainless steel knives became available.
As far as I know, he remained a "fan" of carbon steel, even after stainless became available. Whether this was just out of habit, or the quality/durability/edge holding/ease of sharpening of the early stainless steel blades, I don't know.

It may be different now, (there have been advancements in heat treating over the years, after all) but at one time, and not really all that long ago, stainless steel blades had a reputation of not taking as keen an edge as a carbon steel blade, and for not holding an edge as long as a carbon steel blade. Also, that reputation was not just for inexpensive and/or "off brand" knives.
Come to that, I still hear that Case's True Sharp stainless blades do not hold an edge or take as keen an edge as their CV carbon steel blades, and are more difficult to sharpen because of the wire edge their stainless can/does get.
I do not have enough personal experience with Case to comment on that, however.
 
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afishhunter - I have never heard a reason why people say a stainless knife is difficult to sharpen. That statement never made sense to me since I only make SS knives and never have a problem sharpening them. Wire edge !! of course. Very simple to remove if one reads any text on sharpening knives. Thanks.
 
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