Carbon V

A

almtiba

Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
468
Hi guys,

What steel is Carbon V, of Cold Steel ?

I know it's a high carbon steel, tempered 5 (V) times...

What else ?

Thanx
 
I would be amazed if it was tempered more than once. It is a cutlery grade of carbon steel with Vanadium in it (hence the V). It is reported to be made by Camillus on contract out of their 0170-6C alloy steel. If that is true it is a little like O1 tool steel.
 
I think 0170-6 is a different name for 50100-B. Carbon V is a good, solid working steel, but there's nothing magic about it. I think it's funny that nobody seems to want to own up to using 0170-6--what was Marble's name for their "new proprietary steel" until they decided to 'fess up? I don't know why this is, as it's a perfectly good blade material.
 
Carbon V is alright stuff. I think it works so well because it is so simple. It's fairly tough and quite easy to sharpen as well. Cold Steel's AUS-8 is also pretty good, IMO.

As far as owning up to a certain older steel, it's the game of one-upmanship in advertising. For anyone informed, it doesn't matter. But to the average buyer, something new has to be better than the old stuff.
 
Oh I know, I just think it's funny that 0170-6 keeps getting picked on.
 
T1mpany, you're right, I don't know why they don't want to use the AISI designation 50100B. This is also used in Camillus's Becker series.Nothing magic and not heat treated 5 times but a very good knife steel.
 
How do you know it is 0170-6 and not quenched 5 times?

A few years ago, I believe someone did some testing and may have said that the results matched 50-0100B. But I believe that Carbon V and its treatment is proprietary and Cold Steel has never said what it is. The most specific thing I've seend them say is that it's high carbon, non-stainless, they buy in large batches and test it before use. More than a few years ago on this forum there was a thread about how it may have changed composition over time. I've heard on these forums, but never in Cold Steel literature, that the V stands for vanadium, it stands for the fifth formulation tested, and now that it stands for 5 sessions of tempering. Anyone really know?
 
Don't know what the V stands for but it is darned good steel. Here's Joe Talmadge's take from the steel FAQ:
"Carbon V is a very good steel. It is 50100b which is almost the same as 52100 except that is has less chromium. It has about .4% and 52100 has about 1.5%. Also 50100b has about .15% vanadium in it whereas 52100 has none or very little, like less than .05%. It is a pretty good balance between hardness, sharpness, and toughness. For a tougher blade you could go to multi-quenched 5160 or 52100. Carbon V would work well for a large knife if you aren't going to use it extensively as a crowbar. It is pretty similar to O1 which has been used for Randall fighting knives for decades."
Camillus produces Carbon V blades for Cold Steel, it's pretty well known. Some time ago they slightly altered the formation (50100c?) but wouldn't say specifically what they did, as it's a proprietary steel. Makes sense that they would use the same steel and tempering techniques for both CS and their outstanding Becker line. As Ethan Becker said some time ago, the boys at Camillus know their heat treat.
My Carbon V Cold Steel knives cut like a screaming witch, as Ethan says. One of the best carbon steels around, IMHO. :D
 
Carbon V:

One of the best commercial steels from mfg's for mid to large blades IMO.

I have the Laredo bowie in that steel and it takes a very very good edge [ gets real sharp quickly ] and holds it for as long as one should expect.

I've had trailmasters that were of the same steel and they fared very well in use over the years as well. Overall, no problems that I've found. It may not cut as long as 5160 or 1084 with multiple quench, it may not be as tough as well, but for a commercial steel it performs it's job.

I believe Carbon V is cold rolled, or was at one time as well.

I like it alot in a big blade where the steels qualities shine for toughness and edge retention.

Brownie
 
Brownshoe, as a metallurgist I can tell you that they are not going to do anything 5 times to that steel. Not necessary and too costly. When they say proprietary they probably mean it is melted to careful specifications such as hardenability found in the H steels and that might mean certain additions. Small amounts of vanadium are used for grain refinement which makes for a tougher steel. In any case I bought my BK 7 for $50 and if you do a search on the forum you'll find many a very favorable comment about it .Great edge holding with excellent toughness a really great value.
 
I have a Cold Steel Carbon V Twistmaster. The steel is really hard in mine. Flat ground too. Holds an edge well too. I like mine. I keep it oiled or I guess it may rust. I is a discontinued model made kind of like an Opinel brand knife. I think I got it years ago at SMKW? ;)
 
The say "Carbon Five" on the little Cold Steel proof videos. My guess is that 0170-6 was the 5th carbon steel they tried. :)
 
I think you are getting confused thinking that this is a special Cold Steel alloy. The knife is made from an alloy made for Camillus to Camillus specifications. It falls within the range of properties that Cold Steel wants and they put a phony Carbon V classification on it. By doing that they can claim mystical properties for it and also go get the blades made by another contractor out of another type of "Carbon V".
 
I really like the Carbon V. It will definitely rust if it is not kept clean.

I was also wondering about CS's other carbon steels. I own a Mini Bushman and its steel is listed as SK-5 carbon steel. I have not used this knife much, but the steel seems good. I wonder how it differs from Carbon V. What, other than advertising, justifies the higher cost of Carbon V? A Bushman or Mini Bushman will run $10 to $20 new retail while the larger Carbon V models (SRK, Trailmaster) are up in the $50 to $100 range. I admit these are more finished and more complex models, but is steel difference that great.

I plan to keep on using the Mini Bushman and see how it holds up compared to my one Carbon V knife (a medium drop-point Trail Guide) in terms of edge retention. I have considered getting an SRK or Trailmaster, but have limited funds and want to do this testing first.

As far as the Camillus knives, I own none. I figure the Beckers are probably just as good as the CS Carbon V knives. I did notice that the handle (but not the blade) on a low-end Ka-Bar lockback looked very much like the handle on the medium Trail Guides. The blade on the Ka-Bar, however, is stainless. This makes me suspect Ka-Bar helped in the manufacture or design on the Trail Guide series. Let me know if you know more about this.

Happy cutting!
 
Cliff did a review on the Carbon V Trailmaster and Recon Scout somewhere around here............

His testing showed that the Carbon V blades were prone to chipping on hard media such as bone, and snapped on his lateral force testing. It seems that the Carbon V steel doesn't have the toughness you'd want in a heavy use large blade. For smaller blades, it is a great steel which holds and edge well and is easy to resharpen.

If you are looking for a good bowie type blade steel try CPM-3V. Very tough and has great edge retention.
 
MicroAlign said:
Cliff did a review on the Carbon V Trailmaster and Recon Scout somewhere around here............

His testing showed that the Carbon V blades were prone to chipping on hard media such as bone, and snapped on his lateral force testing. It seems that the Carbon V steel doesn't have the toughness you'd want in a heavy use large blade. For smaller blades, it is a great steel which holds and edge well and is easy to resharpen.

If you are looking for a good bowie type blade steel try CPM-3V. Very tough and has great edge retention.
Click to expand...

That certainly is not the info I got from the Cliff Stamp test of the Recon Scout and Trailmaster that I read:

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/trailmaster_recon_scout.html


He does say that the edges can chip on hard surfaces, although this is definitely not the case with my own experience using my Trailmaster, Recon Scout and SRK. Here is a direct quote from Cliff Stamp, from the link above:

"The blades were also very strong through the full body and could take heavy side pulls while lodged halfway in an old stump. This was a similar amount of force which broken several blades from Ontario, and bent the TUSK, and a couple of khukuris from Gurkha house. The edge was also pounded directly into woods and subjected to direct heavy side loads. Both blades handled this with no problems. This was much more force that what caused both TUSKs to suffer gross failure and the Cold Steel blades handled it with no problems."

My own experience with numerous CS Carbon V knives is that it is a steel that is very, very strong....takes and holds a great edge....and will rust in a NY minute if you don't take care of it, tho' no worse than the other carbon steel knives that I've been using for 50 years. Since I take good care of my knives and don't care about a little staining, I find no real advantage to stainless unless one is a diver or some such. Bottom line is......my CS Carbon V knives are exceptionally tough and very hard to beat for the money. My two cents. YMMV.
 
SK-5 is a Japanese spring steel close to 1080 in composition. I would expect it to be a little softer and a significant step tougher than Carbon V.
 
When knife companies use their own particular steel terminology eg Schrade+ they should be forced to tell customers on their packaging what the steel in fact is. We know the properties of steels if they are a regular steel eg 440c but if food comapanies have to list the ingredients why not knife companies. As a knife seller it makes it hard to explain to the customer the attributes of the steel used in a knife when the manufacturer "keeps it a secret". I am not having a go at Schrade here just using it as an example. I don't think it is good enough to just say it is "stainless" or "carbon". Some companies do a good job eg CRKT but others seem to want to give an impression that they use a "whizzbang" steel when it is nothing more then a regular stainless. I research the steels in all the knives I sell but there are still a couple I haven't caught up on. It would be a good public relations exercise for the manufacturers and for those that don't toe the line they will lose sales for not being forthright.
 
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