Carbon vs Stainless survival blades

HOODOO YOU DOG,

I guess with 2282 posts one can get pretty clever.

OK, here's what I mean. I do not like stainless in large fixed blade!

Remember, never get in a battle of witts with an unarmed man!
 
Here is my two cents worth:
-Folders: stainless exclusively due to hard-to-clean parts.
-Big blades (above 6 inch) and other large chopping tools: carbon steel preferred due to cost factor and ease of cleaning and sharpening on natural stone.
-Small to medium size fixed blades: 'grey area' to me but would probably prefer good quality stainless for ease of maintenance.

Just one more thing: I use ONLY diamond sharpeners recently because of the stainless bladeware.

HM
 
Hoodoo,

I've yet to find a stainless knife that will strike a decent spark from true flint. Stainless does well with ferrocium rods but the reason is the difference in the process. When striking ferrocium it's the small particles of ferrocium producing the spark, when using true flint and steel, it's the metal that is being shaved away from the steel that's producing the spark and not the flint.

All of this really doesn't matter that much since most carbon steel knives fail to produce decent sparks from true flint. This is typically due to differential treatment of the blades, thus making the spine (normal striking surface) too soft. A good striker is usually 60 Rc or above. Note I said "typically due" - there are other factors that affect this also, such as carbon content. Some of the best strikers I have found are pieces of steel that have been carburized. Air harden tool steels such as D2 and A2 haven't worked too well for me. Old O1 files, and a lot of the 10 series steels do pretty good when the heat treat is right.

Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com
 
Thanks for the excellent information, Jeff. I've read somewhere (maybe it was in one of your articles) that 60 Rc or higher was preferred so I began wondering just how many carbon steel knives out there fit the bill. Plus, many are differentially hardened with the spine softer than the edge so unless the spine is 60 Rc or above I imagine you would probably have to strike with the edge to spark with flint and risk dulling or damaging the edge.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
The only problem with that is the edge is so thin that it usually doesn't have the surface area to consistently pull sparks. This thinness usually leads to breakage with the higher heat treats. Another thing to think about is cutting yourself by using the edge. The best results are with a wide flat surface and they seem to work better once they're scuffed up a bit. Most case hardened steels will have about a 1/16" case depth depending on the heat treat and this will usually last forever striking flint.

I've heard stories of people using iron pyrite and flint for sparks but never tried it or seen it done. If I remember my old mineralology days, fools gold is not up there on the Rc scale so I would tend to doubt it. You might drag a piece down the asphalt while driving 50 miles an hour and get some decent sparks
smile.gif


The bottom line to all of this is it's useless unless you have good char or tinder fungus to catch the sparks. True flint and steel to me is one of the better fire starting methods after intial preparation or fire has been made. It's an excellent way to travel and consistently start fires without matches, lighters, or carrying fire.

Jeff

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Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com
 
This is an interesting discovery. I have the knife in the bottom of the picture.
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It's a Swedish Mora in stainless steel. I was doing some test cutting using a variety of carbon and stainless steel knives (including a Busse Lean Mean Street, some carbon moras and a small hand-forged carbon steel blade made by a mastersmith). The only thing I tried that cuts through rope as effortlessly as this knife is my Dozier General Hunter. Some people claim that stainless just doesn't have the "bite" that carbon steel has. Well, this knife sure surprised me. I sliced some pretty tough rope with this knife and every time I made a cut, I was amazed. Sure, it has a thin blade but so do some of the other knives I tried. All of them are hair shaving sharp. As for edge holding, I dunno. I made about 20 cuts with it and it's still going strong.

Ok. Before I posted this, I realized I had forgotten to try one of my Marbles and I have to confess, the Mable's Woodcraft eats the rope like it's candy. Same for the Sport99 and Fieldcraft. Still, the Mora stainless steel has my respect.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
From my perspective, modern stainless steels work fine. They are tough, hold an edge, can be sharpened in the field, made rough or polished, etc. With one exception though, all of my larger blades, my "survival knives" and machete's, are carbon though thanks mainly to cost. The one exception is my Aki SBM machete (see http://www.sonic.net/~quine/sbm_rcm.html for a review. Alas, Ross Aki is no longer making knives due to medical reasons), and this beauty slices pulpy and fiberous plant tissue like the proverbial hot knife through butter.

On the other hand, I pulled out my carbon steel Livesay RCM machete the other day and discovered a thin patina of rust along the cutting edge. It had been coated with miltec late last summer before being put away, but even that did not stop a little rusting over the long moist winter. So I took it into the back yard and cut up some firewood with it, chopping up a half dozen pieces of long cured hard pine maybe 3-4 inches in diameter. When I was done, the rust was gone, at least thoughout the blade's sweet spot. This confirms Jeff and Ron's (and others) oft repeated comments that a blade used extensively does not typically develop a lot of rust.

As for the rest of the edge, my favorite rust cleaner is a "sandflex" block, also called "rust eraser". These puppies cost about $5 each, and one (I find a medium grit perfect for edge-rust removal) will handle maybe a few thousand linear feet of edge. Lets put it this way. I've had one block for 4 years. Its cleaned many dozens of knife edges, even whole blades (see warning below), and I've barely dented it.

You can find these at http://www.grizzlyimports.com/ Go to their "product selection" link and search for "sandflex". WARNING! Do NOT use these things on mirror polished blades! Edges are OK I would think on any blade, but they will scratch a mirror polish. Still, who among us tries to maintain an unblemished mirrored surface on our survival knives? If it really is a survival knife, these little gems will be worth having around for that occasional rust spot.

 
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