Carnivores: Screws, Lefty Conversions, and Clip Placements

Alan Antopol · Mar 18, 2001

Folks,

Bought a righty, stone washed, D2 plain bladed Carnivore, with the clip near the butt for tip up carry, about 2.5 months ago. Just got a righty, used, stone washed, ATS-34 Carnivore a few days ago. Plan to use it as test fodder for a clip switch for lefty carry. UW-Mitch and Jim March have kindly given me instructions for doing this. To my surprise, the clip is held on by the "blade pivot" screw for tip down carry, unlike the D2 one. The "thumb bar" is only on one side, though it's switchable. Ordered a two sided thumb bar from a very pleasant and efficient lady at Rekat on Thursday.

Realized only today (keen perception of the obvious, Watson

), that I will need another hex "blade pivot"/"clip holder on" screw if I move the clip - after drilling and tapping a hole for it - to the butt of the ATS-34 Carny. Is Rekat the only place to get one of these screws, or am I lucky enough to be able to score a few at a good hardware store?

Does tip down carry have any advantage over tip up carry, with the clip near the butt, or visa versa?

Do any of the rest of you have lefty conversion advice? From what I see from my two Carnivores, the knifes are equally good for lefty and righty opening if there is a two sided thumb bar.

Do any of you have a lefty Carnivore that you want to sell to me? Know they exist because I handled one about two years ago at the Rekat table at a NYC show. Was too ignorant to buy it then. My ideal would be one with a stone washed D2 plain blade, and green G-10 handles, but I'm not sure that configuration exists. Hint to Rekat: if you moved the clip on a "righty" D2 plain blade Carnivore to the other side of the butt and put on green G-10 handles, I'd buy >= one. Would also buy >= one with a plain ATS-34 blade, and black or red G-10 handles.

Thanks,

Alan

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Alan Antopol

[This message has been edited by Alan Antopol (edited 03-18-2001).]

Easyrider · Mar 18, 2001

Alan,

I can only comment on the screw question. You should be able to find a suitable screw for the clip without too much difficulty. A normal hardware store probably won't have what you need, but a specialty store will. You can try www.smallparts.com, I know they will have the hardware. You may be able to find a store there in the City(I'm from Upstate N.Y.). You may want to go to a watch repair, electronics repair ect. store and find out where they source their hardware. We have some Hardware/Fastener stores here that carry those kinds of hardware needs.
Your question about tip up vs. tip down carry has been debated here on Bladeforums many times, if you do a search, you will find plenty of information. I really don't have an opinion since I don't like clips in the first place and remove them from my knives.
The only problem with yout lefty conversion would be that you need a new Rolling lock and left side scale with the notch milled for the slide bar and lock. You can swicth the lines and everything else is the same.On the lefty REKATs the handle scales are reversed and the Rolling lock is reverse. I have had my right handed apart several times to see how it worked, these are the only things I see that are side dependant. Good luck in your conversion and post pictures when you are done, I would like to the conversion.

P.S. Stupid question, but you did ask REKAT if they had any left handed Carnivores laying around? Try 1SKS, they sometimes have Green handled REKATs stuffed way back on the shelves, maybe a left handed Carnivore is hiding there. One other option to get a left handed REKAT would be to go to the Knife Exchange here and post in the knives wanted to buy Forum. Good Luck Alan.

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A Pat on the Back is only a few inches from a Kick in the Butt.

paul sager · Mar 18, 2001

Dear Alan--
I'm also a lefty, and therefore pathologically interested in all left/right; tip up/down minutiae.

Try as I may, I have never been able to fathom tip-up carry. Proponents say that it puts the knife in the palm of your hand at first grasp, unlike tip-down, where you have to swing it back into your palm while grasping it with your thumb and fingers. What they leave out is that tip-up only works that way if you can get your thumb way, way down into your pocket or waistband when you first grasp the knife. If you don't succeed in doing that, you wind up grasping the butt end of the knife and then having to slide your hand along it to the pivot point so you can establish a working grip and open it with the thumb stud. Now, I defy anyone to show me that it is as easy and fast to slide your hand along the knife that way, as it is to swing it into your palm when you are grasping it near the pivot point between your thumb and fingers, as allowed by the tip-down draw.

So why would one have trouble getting one's thumb way, way down into the pocket or waistband in order to grasp the whole handle and immediately have one's thumb near the opening stud? I can think of many reasons: tight waistband; tight pocket; something else besides the knife in the pocket; being in a sitting position (even worse, in a car.

Bob Kasper raised an even more alarming scenario in a recent issue of "Tactical Knives." It is not unusual in a mugging or other assault to be grasped in a bear hug, either from the front of the back, with one's upper arms pinned to one's side. Kasper showed that in that posture it is still possible to "roll" a clipped knife out of one's pocket with the thumb and finger and bring it into action. I would like to see anyone try that with tip-up carry.

I hope my doctrinaire attitude does not offend anyone--just trying to stir discussion.

I have some thoughts on the lefty thing that I'll share in another post.

paul sager · Mar 18, 2001

Dear Alan--

Here's one more liability of tip-up carry. If you do succeed in getting your thumb far enough into your pocket to get a full grip on the handle, then at that point your fingers or palm are compressing the clip, making it harder to get it free of your clothing. If you are really scared, you may squeeze it so hard you actually can't pull it loose--try it!

Alan Antopol · Mar 19, 2001

Dear Easyrider = Captain America!?, and Paul,

Thanks for the replies. Spoke to a Rekat lady to get the 2 sided thumb bar. She said they had a bunch of lefty pocket hobbits (Frodo in front?), but said nothing about lefty Carnivores.

Paul, as the proud possessor of both a tip down and a tip up Carnivore, unfortunately both righty, I will do some testing per your suggestions. Will even try to recruit an uke for the bear hug test. Will make sure not to stab or slice the uke or myself. If I got a small secondary pocket, like a coin pocket, sewn into the left front pocket of my trousers, I could clip the Carnivore onto that, and draw if lefty. That would give me good positioning and concealment.

Thanks to both of you,

Alan

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Alan Antopol

Jim March · Mar 19, 2001

I think tip-up, tip-down is entirely a personal decision...I suspect hand size, previous practice and experience and God knows what else factors in.

Alan, the "thumb bar" is generally called a "thumb stud"

. I mention it only to make sure you get the right thing. REKAT switched to ambi studs a while back...with such installed, the opening stroke is totally ambidextrous, if you can sort out the clip and draw.

At yesterday's knife-knut meeting in San Francisco, somebody had a Mission folder with the clip radically relocated. Mission screwed up the factory clip location bigtime, but the homebrew job came out great...improved the lock strength considerably. Via clip location. See, integral locks get stronger when you grip 'em, unless the factory was stupid enough to place the clip such that it blocks that effect. Chris Reeve got it right on the Sebenza, but Mission...blew it

.

Jim

Alan Antopol · Mar 20, 2001

Jim,

Thanks for correcting my nomenclature.

. Despite my error, got the correct thumbstuds (can construe several additional meaningings from that word

)from REKAT last night. Installed them, and can open the Carnivore with both hands. Makes a big difference. Now have a one sided Carnivore thumb stud if anyone needs one. On to screw location, and then to knife disassembling and hole drilling. I'll either have a nice lefty Carnivore, or a good laugh for you folks.

Alan

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Alan, the "thumb bar" is generally called a "thumb stud"

. I mention it only to make sure you get the right thing. REKAT switched to ambi studs a while back...with such installed, the opening stroke is totally ambidextrous, if you can sort out the clip and draw.

Jim[/B]</font>

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Alan Antopol

[This message has been edited by Alan Antopol (edited 03-20-2001).]

yeedude · Mar 29, 2001

Hey Jim,

I'm sorry I couldn't make the latest Knife Knuts meeting. Say, do you know offhand who might be a good person to contact about doing a good job at mounting a clip onto an MPF?

Here's a concept picture I've come up with what I have in mind...

Jim March · Mar 31, 2001

You know, somebody had a Mission converted more or less exactly like that. Mission REALLY screwed up the original clip location, it was one of the major knife design blunders of all time.

Suggestion: post over on Shop Talk about this issue, and re-post this picture. You might try posting on the main forum, see if the guy that did the one at the knife knut meeting will chime in. His didn't work quite like this pic; what he did was, he mounted the factory clip on the factory screw-hole just to the left of where you've got the three new holes. Follow that? All you need is a longer screw. You could work off of the pommel screw too, if you want deeper carry. Or instead of a longer screw, you could mebbe hand-carve a deeper channel at one of those screw locations to "inset" the factory clip similar to how it's done by the factory at the other end. It would take some very precise hand-dremel work, but it could be done.

Jim

maddog2020 · Apr 3, 2001

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum22/HTML/000539.html

Follow the link above to see how I converted my righty Carny Cub for LH carry. I removed the righty clip and just carry it lefty now.

I changed over my std Carny to LH carry by drilling and tapping into the scales for tip up carry though I much rather prefer tip DOWN carry. I should be able to do the same thing to my full sized Carny as I did on my Cub, but I just haven't gotten around to it.

I honestly like using the Rolling Lock w/ with pointing finger verses my thumb. Its easy to operate regardless. Most lefties are ambidexterous anyway.

The most important lock feature PERIOD is reliability and strength. It wouldn't matter to me if I had to use two hands to close a folder.....LOL.

If you need some help Alan, or you are worried about messing it up send it to me and I an convert it for you.

Rolling Lock and REKAT make damn strong stuff.

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Ray 'md2020'

ATKI member #A001042