Carry my chainsaw on airplane?

Raver: I must disagree with your post. The owners of an airline, cruise line, bar, night club etc have the right to make rules and regulations. If a night club or resturant has dress regulations and you are not properly dressed, you can't go. If you have a giant carry on bag and it does not fit the airlines restrictions, you are out of luck. If they say "no knives" you are out of luck.

I personally would not mind if the airlines or feds said "no knives what so ever will be allowed". At least it is clear and not up to the decision of some airline hired cop. I, for one, do not want to be at 40,000 ft, in a metal tube, going 600 mph, being flown by someone I don't know, and have every person being allowed to carry a knife. There are a lot of lives at stake, on a commercial airliner. Any issue or situation which gets out of hand can be a major incident.

Your "Air Rage" link / story seems to be more of a reason why no knives should be allowed on any commercial flight and tighter inspection should be in place at security. I am not sure why you posted it.
 
Raver, the post you cited proved two things to me: first, it showed that the crew was more than capable of controlling an unstable passenger; second, it showed that security did not do a good job of checking out passengers entering the flight. If they had spotted the hunting knife before he got on the plane, it would not have been an issue.
 
Anthony, did you even read the story? It didn't say "hunting knife", it said "small knife". I couldn't find the original story I read, but it was about this same incident, and I'm pretty sure the knife in question was two and half inch folder.

I agree that private businesses have a right to set rules and regulations for themselves, and I have a right not to patronize those business if I disagree with their rules.
 
Excuse me, I thought I saw hunting knife. If someone attacks you with a small folder on plane, do what you have to. It is my gut suspiscion that this is about as likely as being struck by lightening on the flight. Afterall, most airage incidents are focused at the crew and not other passengers. Most of these folks appear to have some sort of problem with authority figures.
 
I hope I'm the one person who answered the question.But let me restate it a bit. When you get on a plane you don't always get off in the city you planned on.Bad weather,mechanical problems,and once for me a crash can all put you in another city,along with thousands of others,they use up all hotel rooms including those in "bad" areas.Your checked bags stay on the plane.

Plus those times you get where you planned on your bags don't always get there with you.Spend one night in a hotel in the worst part of town,with hookers out front and angry drunks inside,clerks behind bullet proof glass ect.with nothing but the clothes on your back and I'll bet you fly prepared from then on also.:)
 
If you get droppwd off in the wrong town or you lose your bags, take a taxi to Wal-Mart or Kmart and buy a cheap kitchen knife or a baseball bat and you should be safe in your hotel room that night. Personally, you may feel more secure with a knife on your person but I simply do not believe that such a thing is always possible or practical, For instance, you might be perfectly sane on the plane with a Strider, Military, and an AFCK in your pockets, someone else will go crazy. Frankly I don't want to be on a plane while "good" and "bad" guys fight it out because either one might break a window or puncture the cabin. If you are really fearful when you land, get a sharp pencil, carry a small one hander like a Mouse etc. Or you might just use your awareness and simply be mindful of where you are and look out for bad guys. Framkly, this something a person should do whether he or she is armed or not.
 
Anthony, I dislike disagreeing with you, but I'm going to. I've been reading your posts on this topic and up until the last one partially agreed.

But then it struck me how much your argument sounds like the usual liberal "I can't trust you with a weapon" argument. I'm sorry if you think someone else might go whacko, but that does not justify stripping everyone of their knives. Knives are not only weapons, but tools. If we take the airplane argument to the extreme (incrementally, of course) then we could justify the same "take all weapons" policy to life in general. Then we would all be safe. I don't think so.

And again, Anthony, I appreciate your comments on a variety of topics here. Please don't take this as a personal attack, just an attack on the idea.

Dean (hoping I haven't stepped in it)
 
I love the way we coin new public speach to distract the unattentive. What the heck is air rage? To me it is a funny word coined by the airlines to hide the fact that they have reached a new level in customer dissatisfaction. Strangely enough, when you lie to people, steal or loose their stuff, and treat them like cattle; they get upset. Perhaps we should arm stewart/stewardeses with cattle prods, and force all passengers to don straight jackets before they board the flight.

I fly often, and when I do, I am not worried about the other passengers. I worry about checked baggage, poor maintenance, poor airport ground control, poor air circulation speading airborne bio-agents, and food poisoning.

The airlines can regulate as they wish. But, since airtravel requires movement across many airlines and venues, the policy should be clear, and the ban should apply uniformly worldwide. The last thing you want to run into is being allowed to board a flight with your cell phone in your pocket, and then being told by your connecting flight that cell phones are not allowed in the cabin [what no ban on cell phones yet - give it a little time].

n2s
 
Whoa, this is a plane, not society at large. Airlines DO have the right to make rules, like jayharley said, and they can refuse drunks to board, for instance. Yes, things happen, and you can find yourself in the wrong city, it's happened to me also. But I have to agree with Anthony here. I don't think he's giving a liberal argument, sometimes safety of all on board a plane does take precedence.
 
/.../but I can't see ANY reason for "needing" to carry anything larger than a tiny SAK on my keyring onto an airplane/.../
Click to expand...

"Need"?

I want to, should be enough. I´m not going to hurt anyone that doesn´t try to hurt me. "Be nice and polite but have a plan to kill everyone you meet." Someones sig line, can´t remember who but it makes some sense to me.

It´s cool if people expects the cabin crew to take care of your safety in every way. Like trusting the cops to take care of a BG that tries to attack you. Sure they might, after he has done his deed. Even if I travelled with El Al I would carry some kind of weapon. I take responsibility for my own life.

You don´t have to agree, this is how I feel.

/Colinz
 
RDaneel, you don't have to appologize for disagreeing. This is supposed to be a free debate. I would just like to say that I'm not anti-knife on airplanes. I just accept that the airlines put limits on what we can carry and that we have to live with that unless we can afford private planes. I also think that it can be dangerous to become too dependant on one's knife. It is a tool for peaceful or defensive use but it is important that our knives not become security blankets that we feel we must have to protect ourselves, and even worse, give us a false sense of security. As for saying that you can't trust some people with potential weapons, that is true. Prison is full of people I wouldn't trust with potential weapons. The fact is that the airlines, nightclubs, courts, etc. don't know us and often they will limit our access to potential weapons in their space. This is something that one will see in spaces dominated by "conservatives" and "liberals." Military barracks, for instance, limit access to weapons and I don't think the military is full of bleeding hearts. I do believe that in our homes and in the general public, people should have access to tools that can provide personal protection, that said, I realize that their are areas where my I may have to curtail my personal right in order to avoid creating an atmosphere where mayhem could occur.
 
The Real Reason to Carry In the Air

A) I dont check my baggage because one it is prone to being lost but most importantly, it takes longer! I dont know any experienced travelers that check baggage unless they absolutly have to, i have gotten into arguments regarding the size of my bag just because i dont like checking it that much

B) Since i dont check my baggage if i want to have a knife in my pocket when i arrive anywhere i must carry it on the plane.

i do sometimes stick it in my carry on bag, i think that it seems less threatening when it is stoed somewhere other than on my person
 
i can understnad why most of you want to carry youre knives with you on an airplane, and since ill most likely be travelling to the US next year, havnt really decided what ill do with all the knives ill purchase.....

but if you are allowed to carry a knife on a plane, then theres always gonna be someone who will want a gun to protect themselves against all the 'whackos' with knives on board.

if security is able to take all weapons away before a flight, then you wont need your knife on board the plane. and dont say anything can be used as a weapon, cos which would you rather be attacked with ? a sharp pencil or a tactical folding knife ?

its maybe a little idealistic, but unfortunately, the guards cant see who is a genuine knife enthusiast and who really is a threat.

or else they would understnad and let us carry.

Daniel
 
One very important point was almost lost until Anthony covered it. The fact is that the FAA rule is nothing over 4". But, the airlines are given considerable latitude and can impose "rules" or "regulations" that prohibit anything over 3" and/or any knife with serrations. So far as I know, there is no major move afoot to totally prevent knife carrying on airplanes. Some may expect it, but it hasn't arrived yet. The flight is delayed.

Another important part of the scenario is that employers are responsible for providing their employees with a reasonably safe environment in which to work. Given the special nature of a plane flying at 30K feet, it seems only reasonable for airlines to do their best to avoid situations that could result in a plane crashing with the loss of all lives on board. If you don't want to abide by the rules they implemement to protect their employees and customer, don't fly.

In courthouses, the most dangerous cases are probably divorce settlements. Whether at a hearing or six months after the final decree, some person upset about the outcome may well try to take out the judge who presided over the case. Often, the spouses attorney is the target. Sometimes, of course, the former spouse is the target.

Add to that the fact that there may be a large number of violent criminals attending hearings of a variety of natures that are desperate to escape the doom they feel overshadowing them, and witnesses can become targets, jury members who refused bribes might be targeted, etc. The worst danger is people trying to smuggle weapons or contraband into the hands of a criminal in custody, who'll be attending some sort of hearing that day.

While I feel pretty naked without my knives, I'm usually pretty grateful when the staff of an airline or courthouse/room are making efforts to make the courtroom free from armed violence. You may not be able to avoid a command performance in some office in a weapon free courthouse. But to get caught with something illegal, such as a knife, is almost certainly going to bring with it a charge of introducing contraband into a secure facility. It will automatically be supposed that your intent was to enable, or enhance the planned effort of a person in custody to escape, or to off somebody who represents a genuine danger t the person.

However noble, or important it is to a person to feel able to protect themselves and/or family members who might also be present, it has to take a back seat to the security measures of an airline or a courthouse.
 
Colinz: I have to disagree with you. When you board a plane, you give up some of your rights. That is all there is to it. It is not a reflection of society at large. Again: hundreds of people, 40,000 feet in the air, traveling at 600 mph, in a metal small tube, "driven" by someone you don't know. You simply cannot have everyone in this metal tube allowed to carry knives of any type they want. You cannot risk any type of violent situation on a plane.

I agree that you have a right to protect yourself. I am sure that you have the intelligence to not over react in a situation. Unfortunately, the airlines cannot give an IQ test, or personal history recap of everyone boarding the plane. We all suffer because of the few idiots who have created problems. However, we have to keep in mind, if someone doesn't agree to the flight rules, simply don't fly!

I am really not trying to change your mind. The way we individually think about this is somewhat meaningless, because it will never change.

not2sharp: Air Rage is not simply a result of poor service by the air transportation system, any more than car jacking is a result of over crowding in cities or road rage a result of congestion. Air Rage is a result of unstable individuals who simply cannot face certain inconviences in a mature intelligent fashion. Inconvience is simply part of travel and life, in general. Thank goodness the overwhelming marjority of people can handle it well.
 
We are often asked to trade liberty for safety. We are often asked to "give up our rights" for various reasons. The most popular justifications are:

1. Safety.
2. Necessity.
3. "The Children."

Whether or not this equation is a winning or losing proposition is, obviously, up to each one of us to decide.

A great many people, while firmly believing that they, of course, can be trusted with a tool that may be used as a weapon, view all others as potential nutjobs just waiting to off someone. This is unfortunate, because the attitude that people in general are incompetent slobs who can't be trusted -- or potential criminals merely waiting for the right implement and circumstances to realize their criminal potential - runs contrary to the basically libertarian ideals that form the foundation for a free society.

Despite the fact that this attitude is unfortunate, it is also perfectly understandable.

Me, I'd rather retain my rights than take part in someone else's vain illusion of safety. But if I'm going to fly I don't even bother taking one of my knives with me.

And I hate sitting next to the guy frantically tearing at his bag of peanuts with his teeth, knowing that I've been reduced to his level. ;)
 
I think there has been several good points made in this thread - probably the most telling was from LizardKing. I travel alot (something like 30 different flights in the last year) for my work and alot of it is to the Far East, as well as many of the trips are pretty short, only a couple of days, a week at most. So I virtually never check my baggage going out and only sometimes when I come home. The biggest reason is that if my luggage is lost, it is pretty common for me to be in a situation where it would be chasing me all over someplace like China. So, if I am going to have a knife where I am going, I pretty much need to carry it onboard myself.

Regarding the need for a knife on the plane itself, it is flat out true that the laws the FAA sets out are more or less ignored, and in fact, my wife had a sub 3" folder that was taken and put in the little box because it was "too sharp". (Oslo/Gardermoen Airport if anyone is interested where) In general I am not particularly worried about it from a defense standpoint, in a compact area like an airplane I would probably lean toward empty handed against anyone not specificly trained with their knife for that situation. However, I did have a situation where I was sitting elbow to elbow with a really nervous flyer (he told me he was a serious smoker and we were facing a 9 hour flight together) who about 4 hours into the flight was getting the shakes and was trying to take it out by playing with the plastic fork or spoon from the meal. I was reading a book and not paying attention. It turns out he was flexing the thing back and forth with considerable force, and managed to snap it in half, which startled him enough to jam one of the broken halfs into the back of my hand, leaving a number of plastic splinters. Now, as it turned out I happened to be carrying a pointy gents folder which I was able to use to pick the bits out, and a band - aid in my wallet to stop the bleeding. As it turns out the stewardesses didn't have a pointy knife between them, so it was fortunate I did. Its the only time something like that has happened to me, so it probably was a freak occurance. However, the other side of it, is that I am unwilling to accept the situation Razor described - I'll eat the peanuts with my teeth, not the bag.

As a last note, I typically carry a SAK in my pack (need the tools), and either put a cheap gents folder (current choice is a Fury lockback with Sandlewood handles - like $25, also passes the spine whack test!) in my pocket or clip an A.G. Russell hunter's scalpel in ATS 34 clipped to my shirt.

I've more or less learned to live without a self defense knife when traveling abroad.
 
However, the other side of it, is that I am unwilling to accept the situation Razor described - I'll eat the peanuts with my teeth, not the bag.
Click to expand...

;) I suppose I could use my keys to open the bag, much as that pains me.
 
To begin, I am a trained, black-belt martial artist.

One of the things I was happiest to learn in the process is that the most skilled martial artists tend to be the least violent, and easiest to resolve conflicts with. I fear them least, and am comforted by their presence around me. That said, I suppose that if I am in the one-in-a-billion chance of happening upon a violent confontation in the air, there will be an additional one-in-a-whatever chance that the individual will be confronting my fellow passengers and I with more than a marginal amount of skill (not to discount enthusiasm, alcohol, and dementia), and will require more confinement to remove the danger, than individual combat skill.

I train to resolve physical conflicts with the tools around me, most particularly my hands and feet. I am confident that, with an unskilled or uncontrolled opponent, I stand a fair chance at defending myself, especially in an environment where that attacker's movements are strongly hindered by the tight surroundings. I also have any number of common objects arround me that I can press into service if I need to do so - more once I've left the plane. Things like belts, jackets, trays, and neckties can all be used to effectively counter a knife and allow the attacker to be disarmed and restrained. Fact is, I'd trust them more to bring me out of a confrontation with an edged weapon bloodless than a knife any day.

Of course, if I'm carrying a larger knife, as I usually am, I would use it to respond appropriately to a threat. But that's rarely my purpose in carrying a knife, and never my purpose in carrying one onto a plane. A Spyderco Mouse has always served well as my peanut bag opening knife, and has never been denied entrance to a plane.

My point here is that if we are adequately trained, we gain the confidence in ourselves that lets us happily enter a pact with our fellow travellers that we will not carry weapons on the plane. We know that we ourselves are the weapons, and our knives are merely tools. If we are all placed on an even, weaponless playing field, we should be confident in our abilities. Worry about achieving that confidence more than you worry about getting a large knife into the air.

Before the obvious replies come, I'm not Superman, and I have no illusions as to my own capabilities and limitations. I am simply confident that I have prepared myself mentally and physically to handle the world I live in. I feel prepared and confident, not invincible. I see the questions "How do I prepare myself for violent confrontation?" and "How can I carry a weapon wherever I go?" seperately. I think a lot of people get them confused.
 
Why would I carry a $300+ Sebenza on a plane?

If they want my rights, rules or no rules, they are going to have to take them from me. At that point it is my responsibility to stand up for my rights.

And they aren't keeping my knife. Other arrangements will have to be made, but they aren't keeping my knife!

;)
 
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