Carrying a canoe. Or two.

[Aubrey]

Hi Codger

Love your wheels and that trailer is looking very sweet!! I will have to make a plan once I get a second canoe but your sollutions is what I am after.
BTW, all dry bagged up as per your suggetsions .....mid winter here and too much work to get out ...... Sept is spring

Have a great day!

Aubrey

 

[Codger_64]

Thanks Aubrey. It stormed yesterday afternoon so I didn't get the welding done. Hopefully I will finish work today in time to do so. Whether I do or don't, I'll go get the new u-bolts to mount it (so that it can be removed if need be, rather than welding it to the frame) and the black paint to repaint it after the welding is done. I hate rust!

I think I figured out how to form a good, versitile support for the cargo box that will work no matter what box I wind up with. I intend to use flat 1-1/4" x 1/4" bar stock steel, two parallel pieces a foot apart welded to the bottom of the frame between the basket and tongue. C-channel or square tube would be overkill since I am only spanning 40" or so and the cargo box weight should not exceed 150# at most when filled with gear.

Welding them to the bottom of the frame will gain me 4" of height clearance, a slightly lower center of gravity and allow me to change out cargo boxes if the first one proves to be too small or not durable enough, or to remove it and the basket if I need to carry a third canoe on the lower deck. I'll just use stainless bolts and washers to mount the box to the support bars so that it can easily be changed between plastic, steel or aluminum.

I'll post pictures when I get these next steps done. Hopefully I'll make it to the river again tomorrow. If work doesn't interfere.

 

[Codger_64]

I finally got the basket welded up and mounted. In the background, you can see a cargo box I bought today that turned out to be too big for what I have in mind. It will go to my construction partner for a plumbing supply box. I will pick up a slightly smaller one tomorrow from a different supplier.

 

[mewolf1]

That looks awesome Codger!!:thumbup:

 

[chopchop]

Awesome job on the trailer! We had a super over engineered version welded up for our research unit to carry 4 canoes &/or a small jon boat. I like yours better.

One thing I'd mention is you might want to weld a round stock edge on the ends of the square tube so that your straps don't get cut. I don't know where you put in and take out, but some of the places we go have some pretty good washboard sections in the road. We found out the hard way how easy it is for those straps to wear through.

 

[Codger_64]

That looks awesome Codger!!:thumbup:

Thanks. Coming from you, a long haired long-time canoe professional gnome-dude, I take that as a great compliment! You've probably seen more home-built canoe trailers that I have ever seen canoes!

Awesome job on the trailer! We had a super over engineered version welded up for our research unit to carry 4 canoes &/or a small jon boat. I like yours better.

One thing I'd mention is you might want to weld a round stock edge on the ends of the square tube so that your straps don't get cut. I don't know where you put in and take out, but some of the places we go have some pretty good washboard sections in the road. We found out the hard way how easy it is for those straps to wear through.

Excellent point. Running the straps through the tubes is just a temporary measure until I get the extensions made. In the meantime, I radiused the ends of the tubes with a bastard file, then slipped on small pieces of plastic car door edge protector to increase the radius on the top edge (not seen in the above pictures). The extension bars will have eyes on the ends for the strap hooks.

I am thinking about adding 1" square or round tube to the top of the basket for rigidity, but how much do I want this thing to eventually weigh? If I keep adding steel, it will cease to be easily man-portable. Even unloaded. I am still yet to add the cargo box and it's supports, extension bars, plastic bed protector in the basket, fenders with their brackets and a spare tire.

And additional tie down points. Years of car-topping canoes have shown me that it is smart to use fore and aft lines to prevent launching a canoe down the road in an emergency stop. I actually did that on a new '75 Honda Civic. And the cargo in the basket has to be secured. I am thinking a net rather than individual straps, other than for heavy items like a large cooler (which I only take when car camping like I did on Memorial day weekend).

Plastic bed protector? When I moved here, the previous resident had abandoned a plastic bed liner for a full size truck in one of the sheds. I am thinking about cutting it up to line the basket as a road spray and mud shield. It won't add much weight and I don't have any other use for it.

I have to find better foam or other material for the top load bars. The open cell foam you see is free, packing material for the diving boards I install, but it isn't very durable. I may adapt strips of the corrogated polyethelyne from the bed liner. It will be slick as snot which may cause issues with securing the canoes on top, but I use slick ash load bars on the Quick-N-Easy rack and they haven't caused a problem so far. I had the canoe seat/thwart factory in New York custom make those for me and they weren't real expensive, but still not cheap.

Men, boys, toys!

 

[omniviking]

Nice trailer Codger. weld a bracket off of each post and you could haul 2 more canoes on their sides with the top rails against the post and strapped down.

maybe put the heavy canoe on the bottom?

 

[Codger_64]

Nice trailer Codger. weld a bracket off of each post and you could haul 2 more canoes on their sides with the top rails against the post and strapped down.

maybe put the heavy canoe on the bottom?

Interesting suggestion Omniviking. But it is a matter of scale that isn't readily apparent in the photos. The frame (and top load bar) are only 44" wide at the outside (the Old Town Guide 160 is 40" wide in the gunnel center). From the top of the frame to the top of the load bar is only 26". I kept the load bars that low on purpose to provide a low center for gravity and low wind resistance, not to mention ease of loading. The outside wheel track (and max trailer width at taillight boxes) is just under five feet. When I add the load bar extensions, the max overall load width will be seven feet, overhanging the trailer about a foot on each side I really hate to make the load any wider than that unless I went with a wider frame and axle. But I seldom carrry more than the two canoes seen above. Even with a second canoe like the red one in place of the smaller Dagger, it won't be overly wide or top heavy (2 x 85# = 170# plus wind resistance). The Dagger Tupelo is only 27" wide in the center so the current pair need only 67" (5' 5") of load bar width. Less actually since the bars will be under narrower portions of both canoes. If I do haul another wide canoe beside the Guide 160, I can always stack the little 29# Tupelo on top of the larger pair or carry it inverted on top of the cargo basket below.

Please do keep the suggestions coming though. As you have seen, this is a constantly evolving project. I have no idea what my kids will get for the finished trailer on eBay when I no longer need it, but it should be an interseting auction!

 

[Codger_64]

I got more done today. Really didn't feel up to a river trip but wanted to still do something productive besides just mow the lawn.

I got the bed liner cut up and installed and bought the right cargo box. Right now it is just sitting on a 2x4 flush with the frame bottom while I decide how low to mount it. I still need to install the liner side caps (split black poly tube) and weld on the angle iron brackets to suspend the cargo box. At this point, the unladen tongue weight is still under 35#. I'll check it again when I am done to see if I still need to scoot the axle back. The cargo box is light (brackets will weigh more) and the vests, straps etc. I intend to put in there don't weigh much at all.

EDIT:
I only got one crossmember covered with polypipe today. The second piece was just too curled to work. I may go get a straighter piece tomorrow if my heat blanket won't take the curl out of this piece before it melts. The one I did get covered looks great though. I split it with a skillsaw on a 2x4 jig, then forced it down over the square tube, secured it with stainless self tapping tek screws. I also got the 1" polypipe lower trim on the "tailgate" bedliner. I still need to tap it with a drain hole in the bottom center.

EDIT:
I got the other crossmember covered today. I learned by trial and error how to straighten bowed polypipe. As I mentioned, I had ripped each piece in a jig to keep the cuts straight (I don't own a table saw or I would have used that and it's guide). I took the bowed piece and drove it over a piece of rigid schedule 40 PVC pipe then let it bake in the sun while I worked today. This afternoon it was perfectly straight without having to resort to the heat blanket I use to bend rigid PVC in my work.

I'll update the photos when I get the brackets made and the cargo box mounted. Both canoes still fit quite well, the Dagger, as before, on the lower level but inverted on top of the basket instead of down on the deck. There is indeed still room to carry a larger canoe in it's place. I am going to drop the idea of adding extension bars to the upper crossmembers and just add upper tie downs to them.

 

[Codger_64]

Evidently I am not the only person who has thought of a personal watercraft/jet ski trailer as a good canoe hauler. I ran across this one on Craigslist.

I think I may have him beat in the creativity department. But what works, works!

 

[bpiatt]

Delete this. Posted in wrong thread.

 

[mewolf1]

Codger_64I I got the other crossmember covered today. I learned by trial and error how to straighten bowed polypipe. As I mentioned, I had ripped each piece in a jig to keep the cuts straight (I don't own a table saw or I would have used that and it's guide). I took the bowed piece and drove it over a piece of rigid schedule 40 PVC pipe then let it bake in the sun while I worked today. This afternoon it was perfectly straight without having to resort to the heat blanket I use to bend rigid PVC in my work.

I'll update the photos when I get the brackets made and the cargo box mounted. Both canoes still fit quite well, the Dagger, as before, on the lower level but inverted on top of the basket instead of down on the deck. There is indeed still room to carry a larger canoe in it's place. I am going to drop the idea of adding extension bars to the upper crossmembers and just add upper tie downs to them.

Just a suggestion, old carpet tied on the cross bars works great to reduce wear and slippage in transit. Replaceable too.

 

[Codger_64]

Just a suggestion, old carpet tied on the cross bars works great to reduce wear and slippage in transit. Replaceable too.

I hadn't thought of using carpet. We'll see how poly gunnels ride on poly crossmembers first. They were deliciously slick when I slid the Old Town from it's sawhorse rack onto the top of the trailer the other day. I will add the tie down eyes to the top outer ends of the crossmembers this weekend and see how well it rides on the way to the river and back. The foam I first used was not slick enough, and began tearing first trip.

And lo and behold... I snagged another black wire display rack sorta like the other ones. This one is 6' long and 2' wide, made with wires 3" by 3" spaced. It is going to be welded up as a 5' long by 12" tall by 6" wide locking paddle locker with a piano hinged lid and safety hasps. I have a supply of 2" square by 16" long closed cell foam billets to use as paddle cradles inside the basket. I should be able to carry four canoe paddles and the break-down kayak paddle with ease.

This is a fun project, but I need to find a stopping point!

 

[willseeyalater]

This is a fun project, but I need to find a stopping point!

Have you thought about adding a hydraulic boom for launching your canoe? Just kidding.

 

[Codger_64]

Have you thought about adding a hydraulic boom for launching your canoe? Just kidding.

Boom? Hmm... a boombox. Alpine stereo cd player? Hmm... tailgater grill. Porta potty. Blue neon tubes underneath. Curb scrapers, fenderskirts and a bobblehead dog with winking eyes! Nah. Just want to get my gear to the river and back and safely store it without having it pilfered by itchy fingers.

My last canoe, "Opal", was stolen. It was marine salvage in Florida after hurricane Andrew. After I bought it and reworked it (ash & cane seats, new ash thwarts and decks, paint etc.), it weathered two more hurricanes, Opal and Erin strapped to the wrought iron posts of my carport, then a move to Arkansas and another to Tennessee. I miss the old battlewagon and don't want another stolen. I hates me some thieves.

EDIT: I scored some discounted hardware and materials at the flea market yesterday and went back to work on the trailer. The paddle locker basket is cut and bent, just needing the welding done and then the foam inserts cut and glued in. I temporarily stitched the basket together using zip ties (also flea market finds). I have to see about salvaging a heavy-duty piano hinge from a set of ornamental iron storm doors I have stashed.

I solved the problem of finding inexpensive angle iron for the cargo box brackets. I bought a mobile-home type bed frame for $5, and have the brackets mounted temporarily with u-bolts until I can get them welded on. There is enough steel left for fender brackets when I get ready to mount those. I also got the top crossmember tiedown eyes mounted. The plastic end caps for the crossmembers (eBay finds) will be here early this coming week.

 

[Codger_64]

Well, I didn't get my welding done, but I did get the cargo box brackets made, the end caps, polypipe top and tiedowns installed. This is a good place to quit for the weekend and go to the river. Paddles up!

 

[Mistwalker]

This is my set up. Works well for us.

This is something like what I am going to be going for with my smaller truck. I really want to avoid using a trailer if at all possible but I'm definitely getting a canoe as soon as I find one I can at least almost afford...

 

[Codger_64]

This is something like what I am going to be going for with my smaller truck. I really want to avoid using a trailer if at all possible but I'm definitely getting a canoe as soon as I find one I can at least almost afford...

A lot of affordable canoes come across Craigslist in your area. You should be able to land something you like for less than $500 if you exercise a bit of patience. Just get a size and type in mind before you do your shopping. I paddle my plastic 16' Old Town Guide by myself quite often, and it is wide enough to be quite stable with a moving dog or kid onboard. It has a keel though which aids in tracking but hurts maneuverability in faster water. For mostly solo use with an occasional passenger, you might look into the ones in the 14-15' range. I dispise the molded plastic bucket seats that most come with now. I replaced the ones in my Old Town with cane and ash seats (some new designs don't allow this, such as the ones made by Pelican). Some real deals can be found on aluminum canoes, but I personally don't like the noise and heat, not to mention dents and other wear issues in the shallow rocky rivers I frequent. But that might not concern you if you intend to use it on lakes or the Tennessee River.

 

[Mistwalker]

I am mainly going to be in it by myself so seriously thinking about just grabbing a new Old Town 11.9' in cammo from one of the sporting goods stores here for $400.00. The ability to carry it alone is going to be more important to me than adding a passenger...

 

[Stray Round]

Codger that is a great job on the canoe trailer. I need something like that for a couple of kayaks and would like to reproduce you work.

Love the Falcon. I got to shuttle one of the Falcon stationwagons about 30yrs ago because no one out of about 30 people knew how to drive a car with a manuel transmission with the shifter on the column. For a young fellow with a physical job on a really hot day it was like a mini vacaton to spend the day driving on a pretty stretch of road.