Carrying a fixed blade openly in public

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HyperXHyperX said:
Here the knife laws are a bit weird. Like, you can carry a kitchen or even a hunting knife (I struggle with this definition), but gravity knives, automatic knives or knives that are daggers - both sides ground) are a no go. Basically anything that's got a lever or button is forbidden to carry. I'm not even sure if that includes flippers, but it would seem so.

Funny thing is, you're allowed to carry anything when it's in a closed container. So you can technically carry a sword of it's for example in your backpack.
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It really is all about appropriate use and place here. I used to try to park close to where I took fencing practice downtown, because you get a lot of looks carrying a fencing foil slung over your shoulder, using a PVC pipe sheath.
 
In regards to California knife laws-

I've been studying and researching California's knife laws for decades, including the subject of what constitutes a "concealed" fixed-blade (dirk/dagger under California law), unfortunately there has never been a definitive answer from the courts or legislature, there has never been a standard that says "X percentage of the knife must be visible". It basically comes down to perception and intent.

It's basically left to the perception of the cop on the street to decide if a knife is concealed, after all, it's up to them whether or not they arrest you. And then it's up to the perception of the District Attorney, and then the jury.

But in court the intent of the person carrying the knife plays a major role is determining if a knife was concealed. Intent basically comes down to two factors- 1. Is it reasonable to believe that the person carrying the knife was intentionally trying to conceal it from view, and 2. Why was the person carrying the knife in the first place (this is more relevant on the appeals level).

There have been cases in California where a person was carrying a fixed-blade, a cop saw just a part of the knife sticking out from a pocket, or from under a shirt, they were arrested, and despite the fact that the cops saw the knife they were convicted. Then on appeal their convictions were upheld because the person offered no reason for carrying the knife that the court considered "innocent" (intent), instead the defendants said they were carrying for self-defense (a weapon) which although not illegal by itself, it is not something the California courts consider an "innocent" or legitimate reason for carrying a fixed-blade.

In contrast, there is a case where a man was found to be carrying a fully concealed fixed-blade, found only after he was searched, he was arrested, tried, and convicted, but his conviction was overturned because he successfully convinced the Appeals Court that he was using the knife at work, and forgot he had it in his pocket when he went to lunch. Since the court believed he had no intent to conceal the knife, and since they believed he had an "innocent" reason for having the knife, the court set him free.

It's all very subjective. Which, in my opinion, makes it all the more important to carry a fixed-blade in such a manner that as much of the knife is visible as possible.

If you ask ten LEO's in California what constitutes a "concealed" fixed-blade you might get ten different answers. The closest California law comes to a definitive statement on the concealed carry of fixed-blades is California penal code 20200, which explains that a knife carried in a sheath, worn openly, is not "concealed" (the blade covered by the sheath does not constitute "concealment"). Here is a link to that statute- https://www.leginfo.legislature.ca....aySection.xhtml?sectionNum=20200.&lawCode=PEN

I used to carry fixed-blades in leather back-pocket sheaths, but on advice from my attorney I switched to belt-carry, with the knife completely visible from the tip of the handle to the tip of the sheath in order to avoid any possibility of the knife being considered "concealed".
 
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killgar said:
In regards to California knife laws-

I've been studying and researching California's knife laws for decades, including the subject of what constitutes a "concealed" fixed-blade (dirk/dagger under California law), unfortunately there has never been a definitive answer from the courts or legislature. It basically comes down to perception and intent.

It's basically left to the perception of the cop on the street to decide if a knife is concealed, after all, it's up to them whether or not they arrest you. And then it's up to the perception of the District Attorney, and then the jury.

But in court the intent of the person carrying the knife plays a major role is determining if a knife was concealed. Intent basically comes down to two factors- 1. Is it reasonable to believe that the person carrying the knife was intentionally trying to conceal it from view, and 2. Why was the person carrying the knife in the first place.

There have been cases in California where a person was carrying a fixed-blade, a cop saw just a part of the knife sticking out from a pocket, or from under a shirt, they were arrested, and despite the fact that the cops saw the knife they were convicted, and on appeal their convictions were upheld because the person offered no reason for carrying the knife that the court considered "innocent" (intent), instead the defendants said they were carrying for self-defense (a weapon) which although not illegal by itself, it is not something the California courts consider an "innocent" or legitimate reason for carrying a concealed fixed-blade.

In contrast, there is a case where a man was found to be carrying a fully concealed fixed-blade, found only after he was searched, he was arrested, tried, and convicted, but his conviction was overturned because he successfully convinced the Appeals Court that he was using the knife at work, and forgot he had it in his pocket when he went to lunch. Since he had no intent to conceal the knife, and since he had an "innocent" reason for having the knife, the court set him free.

It's all very subjective. Which, in my opinion, makes it all the more important to carry a fixed-blade in such a manner that as much of the knife is visible as possible.

If you ask ten LEO's in California what constitutes a "concealed" fixed-blade you might get ten different answers. The closest California law comes to a definitive statement on the concealed carry of fixed-blades is California penal code 20200, which explains that a knife carried in a sheath, worn openly, is not "concealed" (the blade covered by the sheath does not constitute "concealment"). Here is a link to that statute- https://www.leginfo.legislature.ca....aySection.xhtml?sectionNum=20200.&lawCode=PEN

I used to carry fixed-blades in leather back-pocket sheaths, but on advice from my attorney I switched to belt-carry, with the knife completely visible from the tip of the handle to the tip of the sheath in order to avoid any possibility of the knife being considered "concealed".
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Great post, thanks
 
killgar said:
In regards to California knife laws-

I've been studying and researching California's knife laws for decades, including the subject of what constitutes a "concealed" fixed-blade (dirk/dagger under California law), unfortunately there has never been a definitive answer from the courts or legislature, there has never been a standard that says "X percentage of the knife must be visible". It basically comes down to perception and intent.

It's basically left to the perception of the cop on the street to decide if a knife is concealed, after all, it's up to them whether or not they arrest you. And then it's up to the perception of the District Attorney, and then the jury.

But in court the intent of the person carrying the knife plays a major role is determining if a knife was concealed. Intent basically comes down to two factors- 1. Is it reasonable to believe that the person carrying the knife was intentionally trying to conceal it from view, and 2. Why was the person carrying the knife in the first place (this is more relevant on the appeals level).

There have been cases in California where a person was carrying a fixed-blade, a cop saw just a part of the knife sticking out from a pocket, or from under a shirt, they were arrested, and despite the fact that the cops saw the knife they were convicted. Then on appeal their convictions were upheld because the person offered no reason for carrying the knife that the court considered "innocent" (intent), instead the defendants said they were carrying for self-defense (a weapon) which although not illegal by itself, it is not something the California courts consider an "innocent" or legitimate reason for carrying a fixed-blade.

In contrast, there is a case where a man was found to be carrying a fully concealed fixed-blade, found only after he was searched, he was arrested, tried, and convicted, but his conviction was overturned because he successfully convinced the Appeals Court that he was using the knife at work, and forgot he had it in his pocket when he went to lunch. Since the court believed he had no intent to conceal the knife, and since they believed he had an "innocent" reason for having the knife, the court set him free.

It's all very subjective. Which, in my opinion, makes it all the more important to carry a fixed-blade in such a manner that as much of the knife is visible as possible.

If you ask ten LEO's in California what constitutes a "concealed" fixed-blade you might get ten different answers. The closest California law comes to a definitive statement on the concealed carry of fixed-blades is California penal code 20200, which explains that a knife carried in a sheath, worn openly, is not "concealed" (the blade covered by the sheath does not constitute "concealment"). Here is a link to that statute- https://www.leginfo.legislature.ca....aySection.xhtml?sectionNum=20200.&lawCode=PEN

I used to carry fixed-blades in leather back-pocket sheaths, but on advice from my attorney I switched to belt-carry, with the knife completely visible from the tip of the handle to the tip of the sheath in order to avoid any possibility of the knife being considered "concealed".
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Frustrating, isn't it?

Novel idea: make a small, partially whittled woodblock part of your EDC. See, you use your knife for whittling! That puts proof of innocent use right on your person.

(Yeah, I know. It's ridiculous that we are even having this conversation. A situation in which you have to justify what is in your pocket, deal with presumptions of guilt or malicious intent, or hinge any of that on wild opinion is totally incompatible with freedom or the type of society we were supposed to have. If you are not a member of Knife Rights, get over there.)
 
I also live in California. But I live up north, about as far from a big city as you can get in California. I carry fixed blades and have never noticed any adverse reactions. But as was said earlier, it has to be completely exposed. So I find myself tucking my coat or untucked shirt between my body and my knife when going into a public place, which does seem weird and almost counterintuitive. But, that’s the rule. I’ve seen a man walking down the street wearing a full size sword on his back and he probably got some concerned looks but it was totally legal nevertheless.
 
rlewpolar said:
I live in California and strangely enough, the knife laws are fairly liberal here. I can carry any sized folder in my pocket and any sized fixed blade as long as it’s visible.

I own a fair amount of fixed blades and have contemplated running daily errands with one hanging from a dangler. In the end, I’ve always decided why bother? I’ll just carry a folder.

Well today, I saw a guy at a gas station carrying a very large knife dangling from his belt. It looked like a Buck 120 but with a custom made sheath. Now, he was odd looking, wearing what looked like wading boots (even though there was no water around), matted hair and beard and kind of gave off a meth vibe but the sight of that knife at his side was jarring. The way he was swaggering, with that knife at his side made me finally see what non-knife people see when they see a large knife in town. Not good.

Now, if he was a clean cut, normal looking guy with a normal affect, I might not have had the same reaction. Or maybe it would have looked even more odd, not sure. But it reaffirmed for me that carrying a fixed blade in town is not a great idea. If a knife nut like me did a double take, I can only image how most people in the street might react.
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I live in Texas. We can carry anything we want, also. I do sometimes carry a Buck120 Pro. I have a very nice leather sheath for it. I sometimes even carry my Cold Steel Tiapan, which is even more "politically incorrect", but you can't really tell what it is as long as it's in it's sheath, unless you are a "knife person" I'm 72 years old, and can't ever recall giving a shit what anyone else thought about what kind of knife I was carrying. Not trying to be critical, Just sayin'.....
 
I have at keast 2 fixed blades on me at anytime.

A BK-14 in a pocket sheath and a Benchmade H2O as a neck knife.

Neither is visible.

Previously, I carried the BK-14 on my belt at 12:00 horizontally in an aftermarket kydex sheath and never had any stares or issues.

I've also worn a Benchmade Azeria in a horizontal fashion on my LHS

No issues, although that may be because they blend in with the belt line and your have to be staring at by crotch almost, to see it.

I have mistanly left a BK-15 in a kabar leather sheath on my belt when I decided to run into a grocery store wearing camo... But no I e cared as it was a rural spot and it looked the part. I was more concerned about how others would react.

They didn't.
 
In my work clothes (which is 75% of the time) I have a fixed blade on the belt. Usually 4 inch blade or less except the kephart is a bit bigger.

To be honest I think the auto knife alarms people more.

Never even had a sideways eye with the fixed blades.

One dude I see around the area wears a full on Bowie knife and an old school revolver like he's out herding cattle in the outskirts of the city. A bit different, sure, but totally legal.
 
For me carrying a fix blade knive would be like carrying a scuba tank on my back........I don't really need it and don't want to look like a goofball......
 
BillZee said:
For me carrying a fix blade knive would be like carrying a scuba tank on my back........I don't really need it and don't want to look like a goofball......
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Interesting take for a knife forum, why would carrying a fixed blade make you look like a goofball?
 
Okay fellas...I think we've aired it out...from the law, to "muh rights", to others' feelings, to comfort, need and practicality.

We've provided a little leeway for going outside of the parameters for GKD, and now we'll just reel it back in.
 
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