Carved AK now home: How should I finish the handle?

Philthygeezer, not much to add, but you may want to be extra careful when applying oil to those hard to reach areas. They tend to be the most difficult to hit with steel wool, and build up layers real fast, which can lead to gummy deposits of finish. Anyways, if you are using a penetrating oil, it can actually hit those harder to hit spots as it goes through the woods surface (hard to describe), so you dont have to go to hard in trying to hit those little nooks and crannies.

On another note, on the great Minwax Tung Oil question, just got official word from Minwax, that indeed thier Tung Oil finish is a Tung Oil and Varnish mix, that contains no Polyeurethane. They would say the exact percentages, of oil, or exact type of varnish. But I figure thats good enough for me.

Wal, ever try french polishing? Always been tempted to try it, but can never find a good project to do it on, beyond making a classical guitar. Have gotten too used to penetrating oil finishes.
 
Like you, too hung up on oil finishes :) The only "departure" I've done is the English shotgun stock "eggshell" finish. Best description I've seen was Steves', "Like the misty finish on photos of old movie stars...so you can't see the wrinkles". HEE (duck call).
 
Is French polishing like French kissing?

Just got started. Cleaned up the handle with mineral spirits and will wait a day or so for it to dry. Already the grain is starting to show through.

I did a trial run on my 18" AK chakma and karda, and I think maybe I rubbed the Tru-oil on a little too thick... Does the tacky texture go away after a few hours or does it take days?

When I reapply, does it dissolve the previous coat and force it deeper into the wood when I rub the finish in?

There are warning labels that say Tru-oil contains a substance that causes cancer and birth defects in California. Seems like they think I am too stupid to tell me what that dangerous compound actually is. Should I be wearing rubber gloves with this stuff? I am in Canada so I might just be safe.

EDIT: Perhaps I should have asked the mailwoman if she'd ever been french polished... :D

Thanks again,
Phil
 
Phil -
A "coat" is a succession of the absolute smallest amount of oil you can get on your fingertip, spread over as much surface as possible - each coat has to dry until it is hard, and then be steel-wooled down to the wood again. A tiny part of the coating is still in the wood, and the next application bonds to it, and drives it farther into the grain. On smooth wood, five to seven coats will usually bring out some nice grain. If you get hooked, you can go as far as you like, but ten coats will usually suffice for most.

I have used oils with penetrants since 1955. I have had cancer (bladder tumor). The urologist said it was the four packs of Camels I inhaled every day - the oncologist said it was bad juju from using foul language. After surgery and lots of radiation, I fired them both, switched to a pipe, and still put the stuff on with bare fingertips. I can't say what reaction may be had by someone who is sensitive to the stuff. If your fingers fall off, don't call me....I don't know you:eek:
 
Boy I am glad I did some experimenting first! I dipped my finger in and still got way too much on the chakma. Did less the next time and still got way too much. I am going to practice with the 18" AK and the karda and chakma of the 15 inch one before I get to the carved handle.

I smoked a pack a day for 10 years, and quit with the help of the nicotine gum. It'll be 5 years on September 13th of this year. I celebrate each month by spending the 300 bucks I would have smoked on something nice for me.:) This way I get nice stuff and Joe Camel can kiss my @$$... It's true that ex-smokers are the best activists. "God damn the pusher man.":mad: Joe camel may as well have a gold chain, a nickel nine and a pager: his CEO's should be in jail with all the other pushers.

As you can see, my foul language quotient has gone up to compensate. We all have our vices, and I am discovering that mine is a total contempt for social engineering and usury. If my fingers do start to fall off, all I need to keep is just the one... :p ;)

Congrats on getting off the cancer sticks!

Phil
 
Fed,

Thanks for the info on the Min-Wax stuff, like I said it seemed better than the stuff I was using before. I still say it's kinda hard to find out whats going on when one doesn't know what the stuff is, but at least they gave out some information.

As for those who gave up the cancer sticks, congrats. I can tell you from experience with chew and working in a biotech company that worked on nicotine receptors that nicotine is addictive. But breathing burned stuff is even worse. BTW I'm still addicted to nicotine. How many people are addicted to nicotine patches or gum I wonder?

And P.G. have fun with that handle.
 
From what I understand, Tung Oil takes so long to dry, they produced Tung finish that is cut with drying agents. So instead of taking days to dry, it dries in hours. Another drying factor is how tight the grain is. If the object has been sanded over and over, and you're down to 1500 grit paper, it won't take the stain or finish as well. The pores in the wood are closed. Make sure you can live with Tru Oil. I've heard it doesn't come off easily. That's why I stick to oil finishes on my rifle stocks. Either way, the point of this excersize is have fun. I'm repairing a cracked shotgun stock this weekend, so I'll be here in spirit. ;)

Brian
 
Phil french polishing is a method of applying shellac/lacquer (when does shellac become lacquer, Ive always heard the terms used interchangebally, but had originally thought shell-lac was the raw material, and lacquer the after product after the shell-lac was dissolved in denatured alcohol, but then I keep hearing people call that shellac) with a muneca. A muneca being a cotton pad. Anyways, the method is supposed to allow thinner, finer coats of shellac/lacquer to be applied. Its the way old and real high quality classical guitars are finished, and in the past lotsa of stuff was french polished. Heres a link on how to do it. http://www.milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html
Ive always been interested in french polishing, since that is how alot of old stuff was originally finished, and also I wouldnt mind trying my hand at guitar making one day.

As for too much oil on your coats, dont be afraid to wipe of the excess oil with a paper towel. Thats actually one method of applying oil, is to apply a large amount, let penetrate for a few minutes (say 5 or so), and then wipe with paper towel. What is left, is a thin coat, that will dry faster, and be easier to steel wool than an overly thick coat. Though, with practice, you can get the same effect without using a paper towel, and just applying the coat really thinly. As it is kind of a waste of finish.

Last month was my one year anniversery for not smoking. After 10 years (started at 13), it feel great not to smoke now. Smoking pretty muched wiped out my mom's family (mother throat cancer due to smoking, eldest brother lung cancer, eldest sister lung cancer, younger brother heart attach, and her other younger brother who survived a bullet to the head almost died and had to have a lung removed). Though I cant say I quit because of anything fancy. I tried gum, patches, that Zyban stuff helped me stop for a couple months, but then I started back. I ended up quitting, because I was physically too sick to smoke, for about 2 weeks my lungs were in such bad shape, it finally hurt more to smoke than to not smoke. However, since then Ive become addicted to Ice Breaker Mints, and running. Actually one of the things I always tell myself when the cravings hit, that if I start smoking, Ill no longer be able to run.
 
PZ93C just saw your post, took me too darned long to make my last one, so Ill just make another.

In another thread (which I forget the name), we had a lengthy discussion on processing oils, from polymerization, what boiled meant, etc... After banging our heads for a while with the science of how oil is made, and dries found a couple of articles that explained tung oil. Apparently, there never really has been pure tung oil in the market, since it came out in the 60s. What has been marketed as tung oil was always a oil/varnish mix, and sometimes a wiping version was made by adding a thinner like mineral spirits. The whole 100% pure thing, really only comes to play if your making your own varnish. Since varnish is a mix of oil and dissolved resin (usually in mineral spirits or alcohol). So, tung oil finish refers to the oil/varnish blends, or the wiping finishes. The driers are in the actual oil, that makes up the finish, and can be anything from UV light to heavy metals.

As for oil not penetrating at higher grits of polish, Ive polished stuff up to 2500 grit, and have had my oil blends penetrate. It is possible that the oil you are using is too thick to properly penetrate the refined surface, and maybe thinning it out with some turpentine will help it penetrate. Used to have the same problem when I first started using linseed oil. Worked nice, but penetrated like crap. Thinning it out, has worked wonders.

Anyways, the nastiness in removing oil is that the wood pores suck it up. So it penetrates pretty deep in there. Thats what makes the grain pop out so nice, but it also makes removal a pain (in some pieces of wood Ive seen it penetrate from the top all the way through 1/4"). However, the nice thing about oil finishes, is that they are real easy to repair. Just remove your wax sealer, and re-oil the spots that need it.
 
..than I knew in my whole life!

Thanks for detailed explanations! Fed, I would love to finish something the way that the old guitars are done.

To both Wal and Fed: If I mix the mineral oil and Tru oil to thin things out and then let it soak into the wood real good, then wipe with a J-cloth and let dry, will that work well? It seems like the Tru Oil gums up relatively quickly when I am trying to smear it out... Is mineral oil a bad thinner?

Perhaps I need to learn a bit of patience. The trouble is that patience takes so long...

Congrats on one year! Don't worry about being addicted to Nicotine gum or patches. I'd rather have a chewing gum addiction than the hell I felt on my pack-a-day morning coughs. Or having Joe camel poison me to death. I feel so good now that I wonder why I ever smoked! When you can smell and taste and don't have to cough anymore you will see that life will feel even better than now!! :cool: :cool:

Phil
 
Phil, I use natural gum turpentine to thin my oils down, but I dont know how well it would work on Tru Oil, since I dont know whats in there. May want to try just thinning out a little bit in a separate container, just in case it doesnt work you dont destroy you whole bottle of Tru oil. Though, thinning oil/varnish blends with turp or spirits, is making a wiping varnish. I had assumed Tru oil was already a wiping varnish. Anyways, mineral oil is an oil, and if you add it to your tru oil, will probably end up making it thicker.

Anyways, you dont have to let the oil sit too long. That is something recommended to do with a nourishing oil like linseed, but since tru oil is a blend of stuff, it may not be necessary. You could probably just go ahead and wipe off excess, as soon as youre done applying. However, if its overly gummy, perhaps your bottle has gone bad?

Patience has a way of developing once you start to get results. Anyways, thats how you learn, through mistakes. I have my fair share of stuff Id not like to remember making, and have re-done so many things my head spins. But then, Im an obsessive type person.

Actually dont take any nicotine. Only mints and running. Though sometimes I wonder if there is something extra in these darned mints, that aint listed on the container.:D Though I definitely agree, Im amazed at how much not smoking has improved so many different aspects of my life, in ways that when I was a smoker I couldnt imagine.
 
Way, way back, and maybe it is the Khukuri FAQ still, I used Armor All to smooth and bind coats - applied with same fingertip, while the Tru Oil was still tacky. Now, on the final coat only, I smooth it out with Ballistol (Thanks, Bro...Yvsa sent me a jug, and it is a good all-'round lube also). This stuff is supposedly all vegetable. Don't know what else, but it blends with the Tru Oil (and Tung also), and drives it farther into the wood. Ballistol says it is a good preservative for antique furniture, but it doesn't have the durability of the gunstock oils when used alone (tried it on pistol grips). This is the best "spit shine" I've found so far to top off an oi finish. It is pricey for handles, alone, but it will take the lead out of my .45 bore faster than anything I've seen that comes out of a bottle.

Phil - The Tru Oil label says to use finger "dunks". I just touch the oil left in the bottle cap with a fingertip, on the pad. Picks up maybe a half-drop. None of the oils are really fast drying. Depending on humidity, a coat may dry in two hours, and set up in another two. The old stock makers would apply a coat to a rifle stock this way, hang the stock in a drying room (humidity controlled) for up to four days, and repeat. This is why a hand-rubbed finish on a $1500 custom stock is as much as $200 extra. There are shortcuts, but they don't match the results of the "old ways", in looks or in durability, or the ability to be repaired. I've seen some serious dents raised and re-finished on an oiled stock, and the owner was unable to find the exact location of the dent when he came to pick up the gun. A lacquered or synthetic finish would have involved stripping the entire stock, and starting over. The oiled repair takes maybe three hours, and the @X%188** drying time.
 
So Philthygeezer give us an update. How did it work out? Pictures. Come on man, spill da beans.:p

Steve
 
uh ya mean "freedom kissing?" (hee ehe.);)

I had some freedom toast fer breakfast. I can feel the free flowing thru me...he eehe :)

Sorry, just making fun of the recent socio-political climate issues.

"...spending the 300 bucks I would have smoked on something nice for me."
--Phil

From what I've heard, the current socio-political climate in the Great White North may soon make such an option legal.:)

If 50 years, all us old folks with glaucoma will be in Canada, leaving a bunch of old folks with big plastic boobs and Viagara in the US. Weird.
 
...and I am stuck up in the arctic 'til Tuesday.

So far it's gone good for a first try I think. I would rub a thin coat into an area with an extra-soft toothbrush and then hand rub it. Then I would wait a couple hours and rub another coat in while the previous spot was still tacky.

A couple weird things are happening though:

-the right side of the handle (point down) is now glossy polished, while the left side it matte and seems drier. It looks as if the left side could slurp up an extra 2 or 3 coats...:confused: Weird.

-also on the left side, there are some dark spots on the wood that must be part of the grain. I cleaned with a toothbrush and mineral spirits for hours and no rouge or dirt was coming off the handle at all. I am thinking that the dark is part of the wood.

I'll work the extra coat into the left side when I get back on Tuesday. Pics will be forthcoming. :)
 
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