Case CV steel

I just like it, I like it alot. I am sorry to not be more of a steel expert.
 
I find that my CV knives take and keep an astonishingly sharp edge. My yella CV trapper is the sharpest knife I own, bar none.

As you know, CV will stain, errrr, patina nicely. I've never had any problem with CV or 1095 rusting, even when I lived in South Florida, but some guys do.
 
CV is a good solid carbon steel (it well might be my favorite for pocket knives) I fhtey made fixed blades in CV I'. be first at the check out counter..
 
Many have suggested that Case CV is modified 1095, but I have never seen the results of a lab analysis and Case has never revealed the carbon content.

Personally, I think the edge retention is a bit low for an alloy with 0.95% carbon, but I also know they run it on the soft side. It does, however, take a wicked sharp edge.
 
Case CV is one of my favorite blade steels; it takes and hold a super sharp edge.
 
According to Mike Stewart, Case Cr-V is 0176-C (or 50100B). Essentially 1095 with a small amount of added Cr and V. Case runs it a bit on the soft side, it would be really good stuff at Rc 59 or so.
 
lambertiana is right! I will not knowingly use a reg. carbon steel with vandium in it, but I will use a tool carbon steel with it in there. I much prefer the older carbon steel Case used!
 
Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation and baseless assumptions out there about what the chemistry is in Case's carbon steel as well as their heat treat methods.

When things get repeated enough, the uninformed begin accepting hearsay as fact and repeating it over and over despite having no actual basis for the claims.

Now, I don't know the composition of Case's "CV" steel but information I have from reliable personal sources within Case indicate that they have been using the same steel and heat treating ovens for generations. (However the heat treat formula may have been refined over time based upon their goals and findings.)

Also, I would take the prior statement (as reported above by our friend lambertiana) as to the actual composition of the steel with a grain of salt.
 
As an interesting aside, Don Hanson, who knows a thing or two about steel and heat treating, says that he has done several tests of Case's current CV vs. the older CV and has found the newer steel to be superior. (Perhaps owing to the superior/refined heat treat.) I'll forward this post to him in case he feels like elaborating (as he has in the past).
 
lambertiana said:
According to Mike Stewart, Case Cr-V is 0176-C (or 50100B). Essentially 1095 with a small amount of added Cr and V. Case runs it a bit on the soft side, it would be really good stuff at Rc 59 or so.
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Phil Gibbs, who worked at Camillus for years, says this is not true. Although I agree that Case does run CV soft and I would love to see some at 59HRC instead of 54-56.

Peter Parker said:
lambertiana is right! I will not knowingly use a reg. carbon steel with vandium in it, but I will use a tool carbon steel with it in there. I much prefer the older carbon steel Case used!
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Why?
At the very small percentages found in most low alloy steels, Vanadium serves to produce a finer grain structure. This should produce steel with better properties. (take a finer edge, have a better toughness at a given hardness, et. al.) I much prefer low alloy steel to straight carbon steel.
 
Not directly related to this topic, but more to the "CV vs SS" debate, here is a quote from a Case factory price list dated January 1, 1934. Apparently the debate has been raging for many years. This quote was likely from Russ Case himself, though that was not stated on the document. Also interesting are the comments about Rockwell hardness.



There are two distinct classes of Stainless Steel, one known as low grade stainless with a carbon content of around twenty to thirty-five point. This is commonly known and is sold by the manufacturers of stainless steel as Stainless Iron. The majority of so called stainless steel on the market is this class of stainless and is not of the high grade stainless which is about ninety point carbon. The high grade stainless found in our line is the best that we can procure and will hold a very satisfactory cutting edge, but not as good a cutting edge as found in our high grade Chrome Vanadium Steel.
The word “Stainless” has been very much abused for the reason that the
low grade stainless as well as the high grade stainless can both legally be stamped Stainless Steel. For your information, high grade stainless steel has a tendency towards brittleness while the lower grades are all soft.
An article of cutlery in the Butcher and Slicer lines in order to hold a good edge should have a hardening point of not less than fifty-five point Rockwell C test. A Pocket Knife should have a hardening point of not less than fifty-eight point Rockwell C test. A Razor should have a hardening test of not less than sixty-two point. The hardest hardening point obtainable in the so called low grade stainless is forty-five point hardness. Forty point hardness is dead soft.
 
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In light of Steve's (knifeaholic's) post above, it's interesting and perhaps instructive that some Case documents he was kind enough to share with me have references to stainless "440B Modified" for knife blades (the chemistry of which is in line with the quote that Steve has just posted.) The document appears to be no more recent than about thirty years old and may be valid back to earlier dates as well.

Also, there was some info showing chemistry connected to CV blades. The chemistry ranged according to the batch being heat treated but showed CV blades with a carbon content ranging from .86% to 1.05%

Don Hanson will address some of his impressions about the qualities of the steel in these documents but in general there were similarities to 1095, O1, W2 and even L6 in some respects. (None of which is probably too surprising.)

I'll let Don take it from this point when he has the opportunity.
 
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Bear in mind as well that during those years, Case did a large business in kitchen cutlery, so the stainless steel may have been purchased for making kitchen knife blades.
 
knifeaholic said:
Bear in mind as well that during those years, Case did a large business in kitchen cutlery, so the stainless steel may have been purchased for making kitchen knife blades.
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True, especially in light of the information on the pages referencing blades which might have been appropriate for kitchen or "hobo" knives. :thumbup:
 
Blues said:
When things get repeated enough, the uninformed begin accepting hearsay as fact and repeating it over and over despite having no actual basis for the claims.
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" When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

quote from "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance."
 
As Elliott mentioned, I've done some tests between older XX and USA (1940s-1960s) Case knives and new CV Case knives 2003-2007. I've been a Case pocket knife nut a long time and was just curious.

The newer CV knives held an edge a good bit longer while cutting cardboard, two to three times longer. The newer CV blades were also a bit harder to sharpen, which leads me to believe they have a higher Rc hardness.

12-13 years ago I also ran into a guy who owned and ran a machine shop, he also collected old Case knives. He pointed out an interesting bit of info. He Rockwell tested (hardness test) a number of old Case CV knives, Tested, XX, and USA, 1920s-1960s. They all tested in the high 40s, which is basically a spring temper. These old knives are known to be easy to sharpen and folks liked em that way.

I have also looked over a couple of original Case documents with the analysis of their CV steel, one from the 50s' and the other from 2008 I believe. The CV from the 50s' is 1095 with .50% chromium and .19% vanadium added. Very close to W2 (great steel), if had a bit less chromium. Or 01, if a bit more manganese.

The 2008 CV was basically the same except .86% carbon and more manganese. Pretty close to Howard Clark's 1086M which is one of the finest steels I've worked with. Right next to W2.

A very small bit of alloy, like vanadium does wonders to a simple carbon steel and is one reason W2 is so good :) A very small amount of chromium can also be good.

Hope this helps,
 
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Thanks, Don. Really appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts and impressions. :thumbup::cool:
 
You're welcome, Elliott !


knarfeng said:
At the very small percentages found in most low alloy steels, Vanadium serves to produce a finer grain structure. This should produce steel with better properties. (take a finer edge, have a better toughness at a given hardness, et. al.) I much prefer low alloy steel to straight carbon steel. .
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The above is very true!

I could do without the chromium but do give me a little vanadium :cool:
Although a very small amount of chromium is OK with me.
 
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