Case CV steel

I've read here on BF that Buck 420HC holds its edge longer in cutting tests than either Case Tru-sharp or Case CV.
One might expect that Buck's 420HC would perform less well than CV.
Is it that Buck's heat treatment adds something that Case is 'missing'?
Of course, Case may not be shooting for edge-holding as the sole target, but one might think that they'd research various heat-treatments to optimize CV's performance...if they haven't already.

This is all probably nit-picking since everyone (me included) seems to be well satisfied with CV blades.
I was just wondering if Buck's 'Paul Bos' heat-treat was some magic process, allowing Buck to wring the utmost from the 'lesser' 420HC.
 
I don't have Knarfeng scientific background but Buck does wring the most bang for the Buck out of a common steel with skill and experience plus and I mean plus Paul Bos who is a real world expert. I like Buck's 501 Squire with 420 steel. Takes a very nice edge and is easy to sharpen and maintain. A modern Sodbuster if you will. Just my 2 cents. Also, Buck 110 at Walmart is a great American made knife at a very low price about $25.00.

RKH
 
Let's try to keep this thread on target folks.
 
I don't think hardness = difficult to sharpen. In fact I have a fully hard 1095 blade that is very easy to sharpen. I can even use an old Arkansas stone to sharpen it. I think wear resistance is the factor in a steel that can be hard to sharpen and not the hardness. Heck I even think the harder blade is even a little easier to get sharp than a softer blade. Case blades in the rc 40s? WOW that is soft. I sure hope they are much harder than that now. I'm willing to bet my CV SwayBack is harder than that. That is the only Case I have right now.
 
Blues said:
Everything is a trade-off and in the end if the knife does what you need it to do, then it is clearly up to snuff.
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A key statement, Elliott. It is great to see the CV steel mystery thrown around a little bit. It seems common to see the production stainless steels argued, Case's SS included. But, we don't seem to get off on the carbon steel discussion that often in factory made knives.

It is nice to see all the relevant information provided in this thread, and Rockwell numbers do provide a lot of insight.

I attended my first hammer-in yesterday at Ron Duncan and Corbin Newcomb's shop. It was interesting hearing the different discussions on steels used by different custom makers, and the bottom-line is, despite all the science involved in the steel and how you heat treat it, it all comes down to how it performs in the field. Once you prove your steel and proper heat treatment formula performs, you have reached a pinnacle for that steel.

The production company's actual steel makeup may remain a mystery in most instances, but its heat treatment and performance has to please the majority, and I think Case has a good product and their company's success helps prove it. In the production world, you get your choice of hundreds of patterns, but not so much on steels. It sounds like Case has made good choices with their use of CV. Like others, I would like to see it avaialble on more patterns.



- Joe
 
Don Hanson III said:
For my knives, it's 59-60 Rc. The extremely fine grain of W2 allows a tough blade at this hardness and is still fairly easy to sharpen. But holds a fine edge for a relatively long time.

If I had to guess the Rc of the newer Cv blades based on my use, I would say mid 50s'. I'll rockwell test a newer CV blade next chance I get and report back.
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My data agrees with your guess.

I have Rockwell tested a Trapper Tru-Sharp Blade and a CV Sodbuster blade.

The Tru-sharp measured 55
The CV measured 54.

AG Russel lists the Tru-Sharp hardness range as 54-57.
http://www.agrussell.com/case-curly-zebrawood-trapper/p/CShhh6332/
 
knifeaholic said:
Regarding the annealing of the tangs, I believe that Case anneals the tangs on all pocket knife blades, regardless of pattern. When I toured the Case factory last fall I was told that there are several reasons for the annealing...blade crinking as required, but also to give the blades more of an ability to "flex" slightly in use therefore less likely to break, and to reduce the potential of wear on the tang.
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Steve did you mean to say wear on the back spring instead of tang end?

In my experience the tangs wear first on Case knives as well as other Mfg.s knives......
 
d.parker said:
Steve did you mean to say wear on the back spring instead of tang end?

In my experience the tangs wear first on Case knives as well as other Mfg.s knives......
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Good question, actually and I am not knowledgable enough to answer it. I have heard several times over the years that one reason that slipjoint blade tangs are annealed is to prevent two steels of equal hardness (blade and spring) from wearing on each other which would hasten the wear on the tang and/or spring. The softer tang is supposed to remedy that situation. But that may not be true, may be a myth or a misunderstandling on my part. There certainly are a lot of older slipjoints out there with lazy blades due to worn tangs.
 
db said:
I don't think hardness = difficult to sharpen. In fact I have a fully hard 1095 blade that is very easy to sharpen. I can even use an old Arkansas stone to sharpen it. I think wear resistance is the factor in a steel that can be hard to sharpen and not the hardness. Heck I even think the harder blade is even a little easier to get sharp than a softer blade. Case blades in the rc 40s? WOW that is soft. I sure hope they are much harder than that now. I'm willing to bet my CV SwayBack is harder than that. That is the only Case I have right now.
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I agree that a harder steel is easier to get sharp, or get sharper than a soft one. What I meant was how it felt on the stone, the steel felt harder and took a bit longer to get sharp, if that makes any sense.

Also read, the blades that tested in the upper 40s' were older Case CV from the 1920's-60s'. The newer CV blade have a higher RC hardness.

Edit to add; Harder steel is more difficult to abrade away than softer steel, thus my comment "harder to sharpen"
 
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I've tested recent Case CV blades that were 59 RC. Some of the tangs are softened so if you get one of those the test isn't accurate. You can't get a good test on the bevels cause you need the surfaces to be parrell. I'll ask Rich Brandon what they are shooting for.I think it's pretty good stuff myself.
 
That's interesting, Tony. I think in batch heat treating, especially with an oil quench
steel, you could get hardness anywhere from 54Rc to 59Rc. But I could be wrong.
 
I'm no expert on this just a guy that is interested in getting a good edge. I don't really think hardness = more wear resistance. I even think that stones may more cleanly cut a harder simple steel than the same softer steel. To me a soft steel can feel gummy and can be difficult to get that final edge. A harder steel seems to form a sharp clean edge alot easier. All of this is refering to the simpler carbin steels like Cases CV. Sharpening stainless and alot of the super steels can be a totaly different ball game as the wear resistance of them can make forming an edge difficult at any hardness. Truthfully it is alot more complacated than that but this is just one guys opinion on a very limited range of experience.
 
Edge geometry is probably the most important factor of a good knife experience.

But if the Rockwell hardness is too low it will not be as good.

db, I know what you're saying but from my experience, higher hardness equals higher wear resistance.
 
lamepro said:
wow so much great info.. and it all started cause i decided to buy a case trapper in CV and was curious about the steel and how people liked it. i gotta say it seems easy enough to sharpen and takes a wicked edge :)
thanks guys!
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Thanks for bringing it up.

I've been looking at Case, but was leaning hard toward the "pretty" stainless. I think I'm starting to swing to the CV, now.
 
Don Hanson III said:
Edge geometry is probably the most important factor of a good knife experience.

But if the Rockwell hardness is too low it will not be as good.
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I couldn't have said it any better. Regardless of what the hardness of my Case CV Swayback is, it is some good stuff.
 
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