Case knife steels

[sdsg]

Hello everyone I'm new to the forum and I would like to start by asking about case knives. I have a modest knife collection and it is in need of a few traditional folders. I was wondering what the difference is between their cv steel and tru sharp steel? What model would you recommend for my first case?

 

[Alberta Ed]

I believe Case's CV steel is a high carbon chrome-vanadium alloy (possibly 50100 or something similar). It is an excellent steel IMHO, easy to sharpen, takes a very fine edge that lasts a long time (vanadium carbides are very hard and contribute to edge-holding), but will rust or develop patina. Case's TruSharp is said to be 420HC, a very respectable stainless (or stain resistant) steel also widely used by Buck (I suspect the two manufacturers' heat treat is similar, but Buck has a very good reputation for getting the most out of 420HC). Again, 420HC will take a fine edge, is very corrosion resistant, pretty easy to sharpen. It's difficult to say whether there is much difference is real life use; theoretically the CV steel will hold an edge longer. As for which model, only you can decide. I like Case's sodbusters; I used to own a few Case stockmen when I was a kid. They were great whittlers, but I don't know if they are as good today as they used to be 40 years ago. (Man, I'm really dating myself here...).

 

[catfish579]

agreeing with Alberta here, both steels are fine. determining which steel to choose from depends if you are using the knife or just adding it to your collection. I would say tru sharp if you are just collecting because it will be easier to maintain while the cv would need maintenance more frequently. if its a user, either steel would work fine. if you like less maintenance knife go for the tru sharp, but most the guys here would say go for a cv because its more traditional and charismatic to have a knife that ages with you. either way a very good case to start out with would be their yellow handled trapper which is one of the oldest models they have. if you want something smaller, a peanut or mini trapper would work which comes in many handle materials. iv been a case user for the majority of my knife use and they rarely cease to amaze me, the warranty on them is not to shabby either! happy hunting!

 

[jc57]

Ed pretty much summed it up, steel wise. I think Case CV steel is supposed to be 1086 or 1095 with added chromium and vanadium.

Both steels come pretty and shiny out of the box. CV is a bit easier to get a sharp edge on, at least with my skills and tools. Tru-Sharp also takes a nice edge but takes a little work to remove the burr created during sharpening. Don't read too much into that. I can get extremely sharp edges on both steels, it just seems like the CV is a little easier.

In normal use they both hold up well. CV will develop a patina with usage, which you can polish off if you don't like it, or allow to develop if you like the look. CV requires a little more attention to oiling since it can rust.

Your first Case depends on your own tastes and what size you want. Case knives come in handle-material families, and each family is usually linked to a single steel type. For example, if you like their Chestnut Jigged bone handles, then you're locked into CV steel. Not all patterns/handles/steel combos are available, so you'll need to browse their offerings a bit. Www.wrcase.com

My recommendation for a first Case is the Small Texas Jack in Amber Bone CV. Nice slim serpentine shape, good blade shapes, just about the right size for daily pocket carry. Not available in stainless currently unless you go with a stag handled version. Easily found for under $40 shipped.

 

[whetrock]

I'm partial to the CV. Mostly due in part to my ability to get it very sharp, with only an Arkansas stone, and little effort. I like more wear resistant steels, but really like Case's, and others simplistic carbon steels like 1095. They take a screaming sharp edge. Their 420HC is serviceable and easy to sharpen, but I draw the line at Buck's 420HC, and don't desire it any softer than that. I find CV to hold a better edge, but there is nothing wrong with 420HC. I concur about the Texas Jack, especially in Amber Bone, and CV.

 

[Old Hunter]

I own and use Case knives with both steels and each have given good service. I pick a Case knife based on a pattern I want, followed by handle materials and a shield that appeals to me - whichever of their steels it comes in is alright with me - I haven't been let down by either when used for cutting or sharpening. OH

 

[Planterz]

Newer Case CV is a modified 1086 (with a bit of chromium and vanadium). Older ('90s or so and earlier) used modified 1095.

Tru Sharp, as mentioned, is 420HC. However, Case runs it softer than Schatt and Morgan, and much softer than Buck. They run it soft so it mimics their CV steel as far as ease of sharpening goes.

 

[knarfeng]

Newer Case CV is a modified 1086 (with a bit of chromium and vanadium). Older ('90s or so and earlier) used modified 1095.

Tru Sharp, as mentioned, is 420HC. However, Case runs it softer than Schatt and Morgan, and much softer than Buck. They run it soft so it mimics their CV steel as far as ease of sharpening goes.

I'd agree with this. I have a copy of a cert of analysis for Case CV from the steel supplier dating from 1957 and one from 1968. The 1957 cert showed a modified 1095. The cert from1968 showed a modified 1086.

I've never been able to get a hardness reading on Case Tru-Sharp because Case softens the tang prior to stamping the tang markings. But in side by side edge retention testing between Tru-Sharp and Buck 420HC, the Buck performed noticeably better. Since they are both the same alloy, that would imply that Buck runs theirs harder. Buck does not soften their tangs, and I have measured a number of them. They always measure 59HRC.

 

[mudguard]

I have a a peanut and a stockman in CV and a jack knife from 1983 in stainless. I find the stainless easy to sharpen but it does not get to a great sharpness. So for example if I am cutting some rope or a lemon its not a big difference, but if I'm whittling or cutting a newspaper article I find the way the CV sharpens soo much better. The care is not hard as long as you carry it often and dry it once you use it.. a quick swipe with your fingers does the job. It is not delicate in any way, but it is not brainless either. Eitherway stainless or not I would never put a knife soaked in lets say orange juice back in my pocket without a quick wipe.

 

[ilmonster]

Agree with what others have said. I had only modern locking folders until recently. Got bit by the bug and recently picked up a Case Small Texas Jack in CV steel, and couldn't be happier. It is developing a nice blue'ish purple patina (patina, not rust) and like others have said, is super sharp. I use it as my apple cutting knife at work, hence the quick patina. A little mineral oil in the joints, and it's a smooth opener. Under $40, and couldn't be happier.

 

[Andya27]

I'm also fairly new to owning knives, and I am moving away from Case stainless models to CV. I'm not a collector - every knife I purchase I will use. It's the same with all of my other interests.

I am finding that CV steel takes on character. I use my knives in food preparation. This often involves foods that quickly add a patina to the steel. There's just something about how the knives are showing character already - after only several weeks. And I've purchased some oil to ensure that when I clean with water, any residual water will not rust the blades. In short, I'm having fun.

I can't speak with any great experience. I can only provide comments as a newbie, but one who enjoys seeing my knives age and take on character along with me as I, well, age.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

The little bit of vanadium in CV isn't enough to form significant carbides in the steel. In the fractional amount seen in CV (0.22%), it mainly serves to refine grain. This is part of what enables it to take such fine edges (it does). Vanadium carbides are very hard and wear-resistant, but in order to form them, vanadium needs to be present in much larger quantity (above 1% is usually where you'll start to see noticeable difference), to significantly improve wear-resistance, in combination with high or very high carbon. This is generally true with chromium content as well; chromium carbides won't be significant without much higher levels of chromium in the steel, in combination with very high carbon content (over 1-1.5% or more). Think of 440C, and especially D2, which have fairly high levels of both carbon and chromium, and therefore form significant chromium carbides. That extra wear-resistance makes those steels more challenging to sharpen up, as compared to CV/Tru-Sharp and similar steels.

CV's edge-holding is more about the somewhat higher carbon in the steel, as compared to Tru-Sharp's carbon content, which is lower (CV's carbon = ~0.86%; Tru-Sharp/420HC's carbon = ~0.46%). Carbon is what makes steel hardenable by heat-treating, and more so with more of it.

The relatively low wear-resistance of CV is most easily seen in how simple it is to sharpen up on most any abrasive, including natural/Arkansas stones, which wouldn't do much at all if vanadium carbides were present in significant quantity.

One thing that's interesting and impressive to me is, both CV and Tru-Sharp feel/look almost identical in terms of how easily they sharpen up, using the same simple tools/methods. Both will take very fine edges. Choose based on need/desire for corrosion resistance; either steel will otherwise perform pretty well in the types of typical tasks & uses expected of traditional pocketknives.


David

 

[Alberta Ed]

Excellent commentary, thanks.

 

[brownshoe]

Nobody knows what steel Case uses. They give it company names so they can change it at will. For example, per knarfeng, the steel changed from 1095 to 1086 within an 11 year time period. Companies run out of steel and switch as well; that's why the Cold Steel Carbon V is no more.

 

[NoNameNomad]

Does anyone know why Case switched from 1095 to 1086? As Brownshoe says companies run our of steel and switch, but 1095 is so common that I can't help but think there was another reason. I'm perfectly happy with CV but curious regardless, especially since they switched to a lower carbon content steel and then run it harder than in decades past. I don't know much about the finer details of metallurgy (or anything really ) so pardon the lack of knowledge.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Does anyone know why Case switched from 1095 to 1086? As Brownshoe says companies run our of steel and switch, but 1095 is so common that I can't help but think there was another reason. I'm perfectly happy with CV but curious regardless, especially since they switched to a lower carbon content steel and then run it harder than in decades past. I don't know much about the finer details of metallurgy (or anything really ) so pardon the lack of knowledge.

Neither true 1095 or 1086 (as exactly spec'd) contain any chrome or any vanadium, at all; hence, nothing they could meaningfully call 'CV'. Whatever 'modified' steel they started out or ended up with, assuming it always conformed to a 'CV' recipe (by adding trace chrome and vanadium), I'd bet any changes made were related mainly to carbon content alone, arriving at similar carbon levels as each of these two steels, without actually being those steels. The small reduction in carbon, in blades meant for pocketknives, is likely to be unnoticeable in terms of edge-holding anyway, especially as conservatively as they're heat-treated & hardened. At higher RC hardness levels, the differences might become more obvious, but this would likely be moot in the 'case' of these blades, so to speak.

Just speculating, but the reduction in carbon content might've been a tweak to improve corrosion-resistance (albeit slightly) of the steel, as higher carbon content also increases a steel's susceptibility to corrosion. Fine-tuning corrosion-resistance might be a priority in consumer-grade pocketknives, as this otherwise might be a big source of customer complaints/returns (maybe not-so-coincidentally, in roughly the same time period and following, Case also reduced the available patterns in carbon steel, and into many more patterns in stainless). Tweaking carbon content to control rust-resistance is also commonly seen in stainless steels, of which several tiers of a given steel type may be otherwise identical, but the carbon content is reduced to improve corrosion resistance in steels tailored for use in wetter environments. They trade off a tiny bit of edge-holding (hardness potential) normally afforded by higher-carbon variants. Sandvik has done this with it's 12C27 and 12C27Mod steels. The 'Mod' variation has slightly lower carbon content (maybe slightly higher chromium, too), as this steel was tweaked for use in kitchen knives. 440A/B/C steels are varied the same way, with increasing carbon content from the 'A' to 'C' variants, with all other alloying elements in their makeup staying at the same levels. 440C will have better edge-holding potential, while 440A will have greater corrosion-resistance, with 440B somewhere in between. The only difference in elemental makeup is the carbon.


David

 

[Woodrow F Call]

If you aren't really into the finer points of steels, both are about the same. So the question is: do you want minimal maintenance and maximum shine, or do you want that old school patina look?

I like the CV myself.

 

[Carbon12]

Of the several Case knives I own I tend more to collect those in CV and use those in Tru-Sharp simply for the easy care. However, I do have a couple users in CV and it is really fun to sharpen as it takes a screaming edge.

Maybe we should start calling the CV "Scary-Sharp"

 

[sdsg]

Thanks everyone for the info. I've narrowed it down to a yellow trapper or stockman both in cv for my "first" case

 

[stevomiller]

Both suffice, I find the CV is run harder and forms less wire edges, and edges which better resist rolling. I believe Case may have changed CV to a eutectoid alloy for ease of consistent heat treat in huge batches, but that's just a WAG on my part.