Case Naming Problem

[TedderX]

Another thank you to jc57!

Now I know why I've not seen a True Sharp Small Texas Jack! And the size comparison pic is great too!

Interesting the shorter fatter pen blades on the 032s, as opposed to the slimmer ones on the others, I'd never noticed that before.

I carry this one. It is SS. I like the fatter pen blade. Seems sturdier to me; probably just a mental thing though.

 

[knarfeng]

A couple of you folks need to take a deep breath and step away from the computer.

This forum is for people to discuss knives in a friendly atmosphere. Cussing is not acceptable. Neither is sarcasm. A repeat of either will result in an infraction.

This is a hobby and hobbies are supposed to be fun.

 

[knarfeng]

I have yet to find any knife company which is consistent in their naming practices.

There are no official names for patterns. The names are based on generalized definitions which have plenty of slack in them. They are also based on marketing. Always have been.

If you ever want a real headache, try figuring out all the Schrade patterns.

 

[jc57]

I carry this one. It is SS. I like the fatter pen blade. Seems sturdier to me; probably just a mental thing though.

That's good looking knife. I like the pattern, I like green, I like barnboard jigged bone, and I like stainless blades.

This one here SHOULD be my favorite knife, though I rarely carry it. I mentioned I had two of the Sunset Winterbottom Bone - I dyed one of them, from this:


to this:



It's unique, at least. I still have one in original condition (the dye job was a little less "circus tent" on the one I left intact). That original was nothing like the Case catalog pics, which you can find images of when searching on "Case Sunset Winterbottom Bone" including, interestingly, several pics of my knife there.

 

[TedderX]

I was worried about the Kentucky Bluegrass. I didn't want much/any blue in it. I got lucky. You should pick one up!

Yea you're right, the Sunset doesn't look anything like the catalog pictures but I kind of like it. It's unique; I may end up picking one up for the collection one day.

How do you like the winterbottom jigging? It looks kinda like wormgroove jigging to me and I didn't really care for the wormgrooving. It seems because it was cut so deep, they had to make the bone "wider' (like you see a lot of stag) and I just didn't care for it.

 

[jc57]

I don't have any top-down pics of it but I know what you are talking about. Some of their jigging (especially "deep canyon") requires "fat" bone, similar to some stag. Some people like that, some don't.

The Winterbottom jigging is well done. It's more like a broader version of the barnboard. Doesn't add to the thickness of the bone, and is comparable to Amber Bone or one of the other typical jigged bones. It adds some grippiness, but only perpendicular to the grooves. Not that big a deal in a pocket knife, and certainly more than a smooth bone.

I think that run was from 2012. The reason I ended up with two of them is that the last ones were selling out when I was shopping for them in early 2013 and I ordered from two different vendors at the same time. I think I got the last one in stock from both of them.

Case later came out with a Red Brick Winterbottom Bone in the same pattern in their Select series, which looks a lot like my dyed version but with a bit more red to it.

I used a combo of Cocoa Brown and Scarlet RIT dye, 2:1 in favor of the Cocoa. The dark lines in the valleys are from a black Sharpie marker right after dyeing (the bone absorbs it, it's permanent).

 

[JD Bear]

Keep in mind that sites like KSF and CK have the physical specs listed. That always helps me since I can compare to models I already have...

 

[Modoc ED]

The OP would do well to get some books about Case knives. "Collecting Case Knives" (both editions) by Pfeiffer would be a good start and since LVG IV is hard to find, LVGV would be good too.

Case doesn't need to correct anything. They've been getting it right for over a hundred years.

 

[btb01]

The sometimes confusing variety of traditional knife pattern names and nicknames is one of my favorite parts about this hobby.

This is a hobby and hobbies are supposed to be fun.

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the movie Bull Durham (which I won't repeat here due to the "cussing is not acceptable" rule, but if you've seen the movie, you probably know the line).

 

[supratentorial]

The sometimes confusing variety of traditional knife pattern names and nicknames is one of my favorite parts about this hobby. ...

The variety is really nice.

Remington's catalog in 1925 had almost 1000 patterns...927 in the C-5 catalog. Remington also used a number system. I'd imagine that numbers would be much easier than trying to come up with unique names for each of them.

 

[popedandy]

Hummmm. I just look at the size and configuration and buy the ones I like. I used to try to impose my version of order on the world, but the world never seemed to get it quite right, so I finally gave up.

 

[AShearer]

And while we're at it, all of the following patterns are called Medium Stockman:

Like I said, if you want a hobby, finding all the inaccuracies and omissions on Case's web site can keep you busy for a while. I get the feeling that during the recession they laid off some of their IT people and didn't staff back up afterwards.

That is funny:thumbup: I'd be willing to bet you're not far off!

Point is, I think they don't see this as important. From their perspective it doesn't matter to the large mass of their buyers. Although they sell a ton of knives to collectors (think Harley Davidson and Jesus) No offense meant, those particular collectors probably do not care if a knife is a Texas Jack or a Medium Jack or a Jack Rabbit.

It's kind of amazing really that they sell over 1mm units a year when you think about it. I mean pocket knives are not disposable items. So, who is buying all these knives? I think I can safely guess that a large portion of those sales are marketing gift items, like branded with "Al's Heating" or whatever.

Just my 3 cents.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

"Jack knife" is a very broad category. Collectors often use the pattern numbers...

This.^

And not just broad, maybe even the broadest of all. Technically, 'jack' knife literally means any knife that folds, when you get right down to it. This means a stockman is a jack, a whittler is a jack, and a trapper, a folding hunter, a toothpick, etc, etc. And the term 'Texas Jack' has been just as broadly applied; not just by Case either. This naming convention for a 'Texas Jack', and the debate around it, is just part of the learning curve of Traditional knife patterns. I don't think it's ever been definitively resolved, either. Confusing, yes. But that's not exclusively Case's fault. They likely get more grief about pattern names, only because they've created so many varied patterns over the years. That's normally a good thing, in my view, and is what makes them more collectable.


David

 

[r redden]

I may be wrong here but to my way of thinking 99.9% of Case customers could give a Rat's Backside about the name of a particular pattern. In fact in my feeble collecting experience I have never heard or saw the subject come up before. As far as respect for Case and it's products I'm in 100% and have been buying them for around 50 years and can say I've never really been disappointed. Have I gotten some that were less than perfect sure I have did it disrupt my life in anyway, not at all. So having saw folks already get their knickers in a wad over responses in this thread I'm sure I'll catch it for what I'm about to say but I'm going to say it anyway. IMO calling out Case over something like this is ridiculous.

 

[coffeemike]

I am confused as to what the name of the x2087 is. I took a screen shot of when I typed "jack" into the search engine on Case's website. The "medium jack" is what I think it is, based on the item #220. However, item #14303 is also a "medium jack" yet it is 1/4" longer than item #220. Even more so, I have a picture of the box of a x2087 that I own that is clearly labeled "texas jack".

Interestingly, while they list #14303 as 1/4" longer than #220, they're ALSO both the exact same length at 8.57cm closed. So, something's wrong with the dimensions or the ruler.

 

[deltaboy]

I got a Case Texas Jack that was their Serpentine pattern Jack.

 

[TedderX]

Ok. Everyone said pay attention to the pattern number, not the name.

So how can both the Texas Jack and Mini Moose have the same pattern number? (x2032)

They're two totally different pocketknives!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Ok. Everyone said pay attention to the pattern number, not the name.

So how can both the Texas Jack and Mini Moose have the same pattern number? (x2032)

They're two totally different pocketknives!

Different, but not totally different. Same identical handle (this is what usually defines the pattern) and same number of blades; but different blade config. in the handle. This is sort of what Case has also done with with the '75 pattern (i.e., 6375 stockman, 6275 Moose) and the '92 pattern (6392 stockman, 6292 jack). The differences in those are more obvious, if only because the number of blades is different. Otherwise, they're both defined according to the 2-digit (or sometimes 3-digit) handle pattern into which they're built. The '087 pattern is similarly reconfigured for a pen (62087) or medium stockman (63087).

And the 6292 pattern was also called 'Texas Jack' at one time, to make things clear as mud.


David

 

[NMpops]

I never trust Case's color descriptions or stock catalog pictures until I see actual photos of the finished products, or see them in person. Too much room for variation. "Brown" is too broad of a description to really nail down.

The marketing photo for the upcoming Case/Bose Eureka Jack in "Brown Bone" looks an awfully lot like the Amber Jigged or Burnt Amber Bone to me, with a little light brown tint to the underlying bone . I have no way to judge what it might look like in reality.

I never have been and never will be willing to spend that kind of money on a pocket knife so I will leave it to others to decide how it looks in real life.

Case, as well as other makers I assume, buys their bone from South America. Cattle shin bone. They have no control over how fast or slow a cow grows, like wood growth speed determines density and density controls how well it takes dye or stain. I've done a lot of wood working and some leather working and it is very difficult to maintain consistent ciolor. So I do not expect bone to look like a catalog picture. Case does well considering the amount of knives they make. Smaller makers can afford to take more time but they also charge 2-3 times as much. As for names, they make 'em so I guess they can call them whatever they want. I read somewhere that many of the names used by collectors were never names actually used by the makers.