CBSA seized a legal knife.

If they can flick it, it's illegal.
It doesn't matter if it's designed to flick (or not). It doesn't matter if 9000 other knives from the same batch don't flick; if they can flick that knife, that knife is illegal.

You're not getting it back.
 
ElectroTheRobot said:
I'm in the process of appealing this decision through several different means. I was only informed of this decision less than 24 hours ago. I merely started this thread as a means of soliciting opinions and advice on how to proceed. I'm not entirely sure why you seem to have suppressed hostility toward me. I thought this was a friendly community of like-minded people who are willing to talk and give advice to one another, is it not?

Anyway, my current plan is to appeal through a written fax, as is the procedure stated by the CBSA. I know this is unlikely to yield results, but I figure it's in my best interest to at least try and play by their rules. Once that avenue is exhausted, I will proceed by notifying my MP, to see if the local press are interested, etc.
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I have open hostility towards tyrannical bureaucrats and those whose votes empower them. I have the sympathy I expressly related for victims. Best of luck with your appeal.

This thread should not be about the brand you purchased.
 
stabman said:
If they can flick it, it's illegal.
It doesn't matter if it's designed to flick (or not). It doesn't matter if 9000 other knives from the same batch don't flick; if they can flick that knife, that knife is illegal.

You're not getting it back.
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Should have had gearwhatever tighten down that pivot!
 
stabman said:
If they can flick it, it's illegal.
It doesn't matter if it's designed to flick (or not). It doesn't matter if 9000 other knives from the same batch don't flick; if they can flick that knife, that knife is illegal.

You're not getting it back.
Click to expand...

Even if it can't be flicked they can randomly keep it by claiming it could; I tightened the pivot on the Benchmade Rift I sent my cousin so tight that it couldn't be opened with the thumb studs much less be flicked, and they confiscated it as being a gravity knife.

Things are just as crappy here; I tried fighting it the second time the TSA stole from my luggage, but it was pointless. I suppose it was nice of them to leave an inspected by the TSA leaflet even though they pocketed the folder I'd left stuffed inside a shoe with two pairs of socks.

When the evil jack booted government thugs steal your stuff, kiss it goodbye.
 
ElectroTheRobot said:
It's not that I mind people being of the opinion that Ganzo shouldn't be supported. My issue is that such concerns are completely unrelated to the topic of the thread. Whether the knife was made by Ganzo or any other manufacturer has no bearing whatsoever on the subject of inappropriate seizure by the CBSA.
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Again I have no problem with what you bought. I own much worse. But regardless of my opinion on it if you don't want any negative opinions being voiced about it, then just leave that part out. You didn't have to mention the knives by name. You don't even have to get into any of the details of what you bought beyond stating that you know for a fact they are completely legal. You very well could have shielded yourself from the scrutiny. So if you don't want to have a certain aspect discussed, simply don't announce it because then its fair game.
 
The fact is that almost any folder can be flicked open if wrist flicked downwards so the blade is in a reverse grip. On top of that pretty much any knife can be Spyder dropped. Really they can take away any folding knife that catches their fancy unless the pivot is done up so tight the knife cannot open.
 
Danke42 said:
No jackboots up here.

It's all snowshoes.
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True, true.

W87sqfzh.jpg
 
stabman said:
If they can flick it, it's illegal.
It doesn't matter if it's designed to flick (or not). It doesn't matter if 9000 other knives from the same batch don't flick; if they can flick that knife, that knife is illegal.

You're not getting it back.
Click to expand...


^This.

“prohibited weapon” means

(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, or

(b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon;


'Automatically' is usually taken to mean 'without touching the blade', so if they held the handle, gave it a hard flick, and your knife opened with 'centrifugal force'... it is going to be considered prohibited (court will decide if it is prohibited). A lot of people ignore this. Nothing surprising about the CBSA seizure (has happened to me with 'regular' knives). The CBSA can make their own decisions on these imports and the Canadian International Trade Tribunal aren't usually sympathetic to challenges.
 
stabman said:
If they can flick it, it's illegal.
It doesn't matter if it's designed to flick (or not). It doesn't matter if 9000 other knives from the same batch don't flick; if they can flick that knife, that knife is illegal.

You're not getting it back.
Click to expand...

Goosey said:
^This.

“prohibited weapon” means

(a) a knife that has a blade that opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, or

(b) any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a prohibited weapon;


'Automatically' is usually taken to mean 'without touching the blade', so if they held the handle, gave it a hard flick, and your knife opened with 'centrifugal force'... it is going to be considered prohibited (court will decide if it is prohibited). A lot of people ignore this. Nothing surprising about the CBSA seizure (has happened to me with 'regular' knives). The CBSA can make their own decisions on these imports and the Canadian International Trade Tribunal aren't usually sympathetic to challenges.
Click to expand...

Seems rather cut and dry. Sorry Canada, your own laws are doing this.
 
craytab said:
Seems rather cut and dry. Sorry Canada, your own laws are doing this.
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As much as i love living in canada, the gov are a bunch of... Ill abstain myself of this tirade now... Anyway as they said say goodbye to your knife. If anything i think you can ask them to send them back to the shipper at your own fees. Not worth it on a ganzo but on something else *shrugs*
 
Gideons said:
Maybe the CBSA just hates Ganzo's and Sanrenmu because their chinese companies who steal intellectual property. China stealing intellectual property cost just the United States economy last year alone an estimated somewhere to be in the tens, or hundreds of BILLIONS. Yes, using american designs and stuff like the mimicking the Benchmade Axis lock is stealing intellectual property. On a different note; never had a knife an issue with the CBSA holding or keeping a knife of mine. That includes multiple Benchmades, SOGs and Hinderers.
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Hello! I know this is an old post but I am trying to get a Hinderer to Canada from the states myself, does your statement still hold true? Have you had any issues with shipping a Hinderer into Canada from the states?
 
Dan woodley said:
Hello! I know this is an old post but I am trying to get a Hinderer to Canada from the states myself, does your statement still hold true? Have you had any issues with shipping a Hinderer into Canada from the states?
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I won't even try to get anything else than a fixed blade in here using the postal service.
 
Unless you can guarantee the shipper/dealer/manufacturer will tighten the pivot down almost to the point of being inoperable, it is not worth the chance to import a folder into Canada.

I switched my spending habits to fixed blades decades ago, fortunately.

There are however, quite a few Canadian knife dealers if that is of any consolation.
 
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Go ahead and appeal, and copy your MP. If you're reasonably close to the US border, have your knives sent there, go across (once the Covid stupidity has subsided) and bring them back, no problem.
 
Canadian law guy here. The definition that the Canadian International Trade Tribunal of "centrifugal knife" is quite a bit broader than how it has been interpreted in the courts in a criminal law context. You can see a summary of the decision which sets out the definition here: https://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/cn-ad/cn18-01-eng.html It is this decision that the CBSA are acting upon when they seize folders at the border.

Basically, any knife that can be opened with one hand is likely to be seized by the CBSA if they inspect it. Also, if you plan to appeal the decision, you will need to understand administrative law in Canada. Common sense definitions, dictionary definitions, hurt feelings or whatever else are irrelevant to making a winning case here. If you don't have a lawyer arguing on your behalf, your chances of success are probably low.

Now I'm obviously a knife guy and think this decision is garbage. However, reading through the comments here is a bit amusing. The brand/country of manufacture/potentially IP infringing design of a folder is irrelevant to the CBSA seizing it as a prohibited weapon. Also, the operation of the CITT and its decisions have nothing to do with politics or the government of the day. The decisions are made by bureaucrats who interpret complex laws and regulations relating to the importation of goods into Canada. Obviously, I think they have it wrong here but my personal feelings don't change anything.

The only way this decision will get changed is if you argue through through the first instance and appeal steps with the CBSA/CITT and then end up at the Federal Court of Appeal. I'm guessing that would take about 3-5 years (and you can guess how I know). You can speak to your MP but honestly, they aren't going to care. You are a person suspected of importing a prohibited weapon and you want them to go to bat for you? Unlikely.

Anyway, this whole thing leaves me feeling cynical but the way around this problem is to only buy folders from dealers shipping within Canada. I wish I had something more hopeful to say but that's basically it.
 
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