Celluloid end date?

321Bandaid

321Bandaid

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I've read a few conflicting "end of use periods" on this. Is there a conclusive "end-date" range? I.e. After 19xx? Obvious concern is off-gassing and potentially running other knives in my collection.

I've seen a few knives I would have purchased but opted to pass because I couldn't determine if the covers were celluloid (horror stories) or a more modern acrylic.

I could also be overthinking this entirely. 🥴
 
GaiusJulius said:
There were definitely some Parker-Frost knives made with celluloid in the 80s if memory serves.
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Yes parker had some knives made by Ulbertz in the 80's which used celluloid covers.
I'm not really sure if there is actually anything definitive, maybe for certain manufacturers but not across the board

I think the best bet is to just assume it's celluloid if it looks like it could be and keep it seperate from your other knives.
Either that or you can do the celluloid test to be sure and then sell it to somebody else who doesn't care or is willing to have it rehandled.
 
There is no end date.

Bakelite dates to the very start of the 20th Century. World War 2 was a driving force behind many other synthetic plastics. Delrin came along in the 50s. As knife manufacturers figured out how to use these synthetics Celluloid use tapered off. Some manufacturers still use Celluloid in some small quantity. Compared to other plastics Celluloid is more difficult to work with, and it's very flammable. The only real advantage to Celluloid is that glossy, vibrant colors are easier to achieve. It's easy to distinguish between good Acrylic and even mediocre Celluloid.
 
dsutton24 said:
There is no end date.

Bakelite dates to the very start of the 20th Century. World War 2 was a driving force behind many other synthetic plastics. Delrin came along in the 50s. As knife manufacturers figured out how to use these synthetics Celluloid use tapered off. Some manufacturers still use Celluloid in some small quantity. Compared to other plastics Celluloid is more difficult to work with, and it's very flammable. The only real advantage to Celluloid is that glossy, vibrant colors are easier to achieve. It's easy to distinguish between good Acrylic and even mediocre Celluloid.
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Sounds like the answer is a more keen eye. I'll have to look a bit harder! No pun intended.

I didn't even realize it was still a thing... 🤦‍♂️

When in doubt... I'll just pass. I don't have the time or energy to deal with it. 🥴
 
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I have a suspicion that Bulldog knives Germany was using it as recently as 2008...but how to tell without a) waiting for gassing -possibly 2 lifetimes b) burning with red hot pin and running the risk of human torching yourself- this gear burns baby :eek: c) heard if you rub the scales vigorously on a sleeve it emits an odour like camphor, but I'm sceptical ;)

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Will Power said:
I have a suspicion that Bulldog knives Germany was using it as recently as 2008...but how to tell without a) waiting for gassing -possibly 2 lifetimes b) burning with red hot pin and running the risk of human torching yourself- this gear burns baby :eek: c) heard if you rub the scales vigorously on a sleeve it emits an odour like camphor, but I'm sceptical ;)

ZXMQ8Zp.jpg
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IIRC Bulldog, together with Carl Schlieper (Eye Brand) and Fightn Rooster, is made by Olbertz? So all of these should have some quite recent celluloid-handled knives. And I think you're correct in that, I've seen some Schliepers with shrunken scales. They used a beige one that looks similar to yellow delrin but a more cream colour. I bought two Schliepers directly from the company store a few years ago when I first joined this forum, but they didn't have synthetic handles, so I can't sonfirm first hand. Just that I was very disappointed by their quality. No wonder they went out of business.
 
ISKRA said:
IIRC Bulldog, together with Carl Schlieper (Eye Brand) and Fightn Rooster, is made by Olbertz? So all of these should have some quite recent celluloid-handled knives. And I think you're correct in that, I've seen some Schliepers with shrunken scales. They used a beige one that looks similar to yellow delrin but a more cream colour. I bought two Schliepers directly from the company store a few years ago when I first joined this forum, but they didn't have synthetic handles, so I can't sonfirm first hand. Just that I was very disappointed by their quality. No wonder they went out of business.
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I didn't know they went under.
That large knife retailer in the mountains currently has some wood handled eye brand sodbusters on sale.
Old stock I guess?
 
Apparently the celluloid fumes from one offgassing knife can cause others to do the same.

I think it’s interesting that celluloid was used to make pens also and the main issue with those is either loss of translucency with age, or some shrinkage. The offgassing phenomenon is known but maybe the celluloid in pens was a different, more stable formula? Or maybe a cylindrical pen body is a more stable shape for the stuff than thin, flat knife covers. Celluloid is still used (and sought after) in very high end fountain pens today, but it’s thought that most or all of what’s being used was produced decades ago. It’s also thought that the way the material is prepared has a great deal to do with long term stability. Aparrently the Italian pen companies who have been using it for ages will bake it before using, to let it shrink or offgas to a relatively stable state that should in turn be good for several decades at least.

Long story short, it seems “celluloid” is a fairly generic descriptor (kind of like “steel”) and its long term performance might have more to do with who made or applied it and how motivated they were.
 
Hickory n steel said:
I didn't know they went under.
That large knife retailer in the mountains currently has some wood handled eye brand sodbusters on sale.
Old stock I guess?
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Google says the company is closed indefinitely.
I tried looking up more and all I found is that the 5th generation of the Olbertz family ran the company until 2021, so that's when they must have gone out of business.
 
I ISKRA Many thanks for your input, makes sense about the ownership factor. More than likely they had a some old stock Cell to use up. Eye Brand certainly had variable quality, very similar to some of the shoddy stuff that came out of Sheffield for decades on end ....then it inevitably ended :eek:
 
With the half dozen of each examples I've owned and handled the 1970s-'80s German celluloid outgassed much sooner and more violently than my much older American made stuff from Schrade and Robeson. I've always figured that if a knife was 80 years old and hadn't outgassed, then it probably wasn't going to.

4C0oFO9.jpeg
 
black mamba said:
With the half dozen of each examples I've owned and handled the 1970s-'80s German celluloid outgassed much sooner and more violently than my much older American made stuff from Schrade and Robeson. I've always figured that if a knife was 80 years old and hadn't outgassed, then it probably wasn't going to.

4C0oFO9.jpeg
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I'm certainly hoping so! I'm nearly positive this knife is celluloid and believe it dates from around 1914 to 1939. No signs of outgassing yet 🤞

 
black mamba said:
Nice ensemble, lithicus!
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Thanks!! That's a nice butter and molasses diamond edge you have there yourself!

I should've clarified as well, since I was responding to your comment, that my only german made celluloid outgassed (Fight'n Rooster). The knife I posted above is a USA Made Hartford Cutlery Co from Duluth Minnesota. So, despite my small sample size, I'd agree with you that some of the old US made celluloid is of a higher quality than that from some other countries; Germany in particular.
 
I have heard that color makes a difference too. Darker colors don't seem to be as prone to outgas as lighter colors. Something to do with the binder material and UV blockage or something like that......Also, knives kept sealed in a box or wrapped up seem to go bad much faster than those kept in the open.
 
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