Celluloid Q&A thread

Just adding a little color to the thread....

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Delrin can be dyed.
I hope that acrylic being used by GEC etc. proves O.K.
There is definitely a place for color in knife handles.
 
I have quite a few old celluloid handled knives, Imperial and Utica knives and other brands from the 1920's to 1930's that I have owned for 30 plus years with no problems at all.

On the other hand, occasionally I have had one that deteriorated.

In my experience, it depends on how the knife may have been stored prior to going in to a collection. If the original owner had it in a tackle box or in a tool box say in a damp place, then maybe a bad spot starts that cannot even be seen and even if the knife once put into a collection is stored properly, that bad spot causes the handle to go bad.
 
From what I read in the links the biggest factor is the curing process and no...not everyone cured the same way or for the same length of time and the knife makers had no way to check to see if it had been properly cured...only time would tell.

And there is a lack of color in this thread...lol...

here are a few of mine...

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this one I gifted to Dad for Christmas...

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Here's a Thread I wrote over in the Buck forum. Talking about the 'white' residue sometimes found on old Delrin. 300Bucks

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=526265&highlight=Delrin

Delrin may 'grey' with old age but it does not attack itself or other knives. Now if knife collectors would just grey that way.....


Here is same knife in thread above. Never handled or 'medicated' since the earlier photos were taken back in Jan. 08. (Yes, I go that long never handling some knives, many in fact)

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Absintheur, I sure like that "cherry bomb" sowbelly with the club shield and match striker pulls. Is it a Bulldog?
 
You can tell if a knife is cell simply by rubbing the handles very quickly with a finger. the heat produces an offgas, I think camphor if I'm not mistaken, quite unmistakable. The first signs of a handle offgassing is the exposed part of the closed blades will take on a dark, almost dirty looking color. Pins will also deteriorate, allowing the handles to warp away from the knife. An extra bit of insurance, along with storing the knives in the open and not enclosed, is to store them with the blades open, and try to keep them away from heat and humidity. You can slow the deterioration this way, but you can't really stop it once it starts, the acids just feed off themselves, eventually causing voids under the handles, which just trap more gas. Here's a shot of one that's on Ebay right now:

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Eric
 
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ea42, will the outgassing of one knife contaminate the scales on other knives? I just checked my celluloid knives after this thread and I do have some new rust on one of the blades of one forming.Maybe keeping them in the open air is best?
 
Old fountain pens have the same problem

Collector loose expensive pens....

Pen bodies and caps are now machined from Acrylic rods
 
is highly flammable and corrosive when it gasses out, delrin on the other hand may suffer some issues over time with dye wearing off or color changes due to the elements, i.e. sunlight, etc. but i dont think it is "bomb grade":) in so much as you have to worry about it being a ticking time bomb around the rest of the collection. The cell knives should be kept from sunlight with lotsa moving air, i believe thats all that can be done, enjoy them and hope for the best.
ivan
 
absintheur has a good handle on the situation. open air storage with knives visible at all times.so many of us put knives in boxes or safes & miss the early indications of decay
 
I have been looking for a good schrade knife to mix into my rotation and found one of the stockman pictured above. I believe they were asking $55 for it but what would be a realistic price. It didnt have any pitting or noticeable damage at all. Also my grandfather collected knives for many years and after his passing my grandmother hasnt opened the safe. I remember many Frost and other knives with for a lack of a better term "sparkle" scales. Should I worry about them gassing? May have to take a check next week when I get up there. Any help would be appreciated.

HAK
 
Update on Delrin info.
The old Bucks were made by Schrade and Camillus. Using Delrin as scale material. The new black sawcut Buck slipjoints are made with Valox. Other models with engineered wood product. Stagalon is a Delrin product dyed to look like, to some degree, Stag.
Delrin can be colored in a base mixture or can be multi-colored in dye vat dipping process. Delrin can off gas also but usually is more stable than Cell. I have had off gas damage to Cell. knives but so far even in original boxes on 30 year old knives that are left stored years at a time, no off gas damage with Buck Delrin. Of course your talknig SS not carbon.

Thats the quick study above, I pared down for a fast read. I went to the Schrade and Camillus forums doing research on old Bucks and some good Delrin discussion had occurred there. See real deal below.
300Bucks

Ok, found it, here's a real expert, not my dribble.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439751&highlight=Delrin
 
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thanks for digging that up, i remember glossing over that thread, codger is a wealth of info.
But i'm a little confused i didnt notice a reference to delrin gassing out like cell!
waynorths response in this thread is the first ive ever read about it, all mine are solid as can be and have been carried and worn down and god only knows what kinda chemical exposure over the years, no obvious gas out signs like my cell handled knives. a mystery to me
thanks again
ivan
 
Ivan, I will find that reference to gassing out to quote. Maybe I should NOT have referenced an association with Delrin aging and metal destruction. Let me show you a picture of what I called Delrin aging and have recently read someone else calling it gassing out, more of a surface 'deposit' caused by age and 'light' effect. Seems to happen much much slower to Delrin protected from UV 'lights'. Also the oil of handling seems to stem any degrading. If you have this 'scum' on scales just lightly oil them up a couple of times... 300Bucks

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wow so it "whites out":) strange but it doesnt look to be curling or pulling away at the bolsters or completely degrading, i inherited an old dunlap cattleman that literally looked like it had burned up, pretty bad corrosion to the steel too
so i rehandled it and cleaned it as best i could and it lives on, its a bit rough looking but its usable
thanks for the pict illustrating the problem!
cheers
ivan
 
Just looking at this thread since I have some Bulldogs and Fight'n Roosters with Celluloid and, of course, some Schrades and Camillus (Remington) with Delrin. I have a Schrade with sawcut delrin (156OT Little Finger) that shows the similar effect as the Buck above where the right side scale was exposed to light, and the blade has a lot of patina from poor storage and maintenance, there is no pitting of the blade tang or the front bosters, so I think it is a phenomenon of the UV light breaking down the surface polymer and the pigments rather than an off-gassing issue. This knife was stored in its sheath for years and the scales are perfect everywhere but where the handle sticks out of the sheath. I don't think Delrin will give any corrosion problems, but that is only my opinion.

I do have one F-R stockman that may be beginning to outgas and I have it segregated from all my other knives and all of the celluloid handled ones (real or suspect celluloid) are stored separately from my other non-celluloid knives.

Now, I am not a cutler, not even an amatuer one. If the F-R mentioned above is actually deteriorating as suspected, I suppose there is no alternative to re-scaling it, but I have never done that. I'd like some advice as to how difficult it is and if there is someone that does that as a business so that this knife can be salvaged. I don't think I paid a huge sum for it, or any of them, for that matter, but I would hate to have to give it to the junkman.

So, if anyone does this for "hire", please send me a PM.

EJ
 
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