Celluloid question

CUTS LIKE A KRIS

CUTS LIKE A KRIS

Joined
Sep 28, 2005
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I was wondering if you fine individuals could explain celluloid to me. I can't seem to like it at all, and find that it cheapens the look of the knives. This is odd to me as I like colored knives, micarta, dyed materials- but celluloid just turns me off. Some discussion may help me see your side of things.

Thank you.
 
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There was a time when celluloid was to pocketknives what micarta and G10 are today. What we (some people) now scoff at as "just plastic" was the latest and greatest in it's heyday. It was light and durable and could be made in so many colors.
 
There's a lot of celluloid that I *don't* like -- I absolutely hate all the pseudo-pearl/cracked-ice/whatever celluloids - quite accurately called MOTS in my opinion (Mother Of Toilet Seat); so called christmas tree cel is another high on my list of loathing (as indeed are all other horrible patterns that look like a carnival ate too much glitter and got really sick) -- but I also hate all the acrylics similar to these - my loathing is for the patterns and the nasty garish colors, not the material used. It's just that cel allows for some especially horrible excesses in creating such abominations.

But the same flexibility can allow for creating remarkable patterns, with subtle 3D figuring, translucence, and chatoyance that no other material can do -- like the finely lined and patterned French ivory and waterfall celluloids and the tortoise shell celluloids. There are other colors, patterns, and textures that they were able to do in cel that no other material has gotten close to -- crushed velvet being one of them (I have a Winchester in a deep red and black crushed velvet cel that is remarkable). Even the beautiful and relatively simple candy cane cel has not been properly captured in any other material. It's the 3D quality with very precise control of transparency/translucence/opacity (all within the same pattern) plus the ability take very fine - even geometric - details that good cel can bring that really sets it apart.
 
many of newer knives are made with stable acrylics. however most celluloids never experience the off-gassing nitemare. i used to collect old razors & had many over 100 years old that never became unstable. as a handle material on pocketknives i think personal aesthetics will favor or not favor these products. i do'nt have any experience with acrylics or celluloid on large blades but probably would'nt select it for a hard use tool subject to batoning or chopping. however that is an subjective preferance & the polymer guys might jump in with some impact & stress factors to enlighten us as to the strength of same. certainly woods,stag & bone are still king on pocketknives. really the plastic thing probably relates to the same sensation we experience at a car show when the classic black & white beauties have rolled by & then the cherry red 55 chevy announces itself.
 
Some celluloid can be very pretty. Some not so much. I have several celluloid handled knives. Really, too many. I worry about off-gassing and deterioration, but so far none of the ones I have did that. The material is unpredictable and it is a worry for me. To me there are a couple of patterns (of the ones I own) that I really like. One is the "broken chain" on this canoe and trapper:

knives053010005.jpg


And the other pattern I like was called "purple swirl". I have several of these and here is a photo I took the other day to show a fellow forum member the relative sizes of a large stockman and a standard trapper:

knives082510.jpg


I do have a couple of MOTS canoes too.

I have given away a couple of these knives here, just so someone can get some use out of them before they decide to go bad. I've rescaled some with bone and I'm keeping the two cell patterns above. Would I buy more for my collection? Probably not, but I won't say no. Would I buy a cell handled knife as a user? Yes, if the cell is in good condition and not shrinking or off-gassing.

Ed
 
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I don't mind celluloid, except the silly-gaudy colored stuff. This is my favorite:

Crackedicecelluloid.jpg
 
Those of us who enjoy the colors of celluloid and of the better plastics today should be very careful when casually looking at somebody's marble collection. It could be deja vu all over again! :eek:
 
I think there may be some confusion here between celluloid and acrylic, the latter being of more recent origin and very stable.
TLARbb i think the knives you show in post # 5 are acrylic. The earlier Fight'n Roosters are celluloid and some of mine have off gassed as evidenced by severe pitting of the exposed parts(when closed) of the blades. Celluloid has the ability to show colors more brightly.
It's the yellow cell that seems most likely to off gas.
Here's an old Henckels 2 3/4" Oval Pen knife with what i think are celluloid handles (Antique Christmas Tree)

aug272010011.jpg


roland
 
Bob W said:
I don't mind celluloid, except the silly-gaudy colored stuff.
Click to expand...

Just for that remark, I'm going to post some more silly, gaudy stuff. :D

This time some Case knives:

knives082910003.jpg


One thing, I don't know if this is celluloid or not.

Ed
 
Roland:

I'm not sure that any of the ones I've posted are celluloid, but they were described as celluloid when I purchased them. The Case knives in post 10 are probably acrylic as they have a different look than the Bulldogs in post #6.

Anyway, I liked the colored handles then and still do. But, I've since moved more toward bone and shell and stag. There isn't anything prettier than real shell, but some of the MOTS is not that bad:

knives0610001-2.jpg


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make anyone like celluloid, but I did want folks to understand some of the reasons it was so popular years ago. It gave people choices they wouldn't have otherwise had. And a lot of cell was colored and picked to simulate real bone in certain periods in the past.

I just gave away a couple of cell handled knives in a Give Away and here is what one of the winners said about his knife.
dipbait said:
I just received the knife. Its gorgeous. I opted for the canoe pattern. Its really slim.
Click to expand...
Note: The knife he picked is the purple swirl not the MOTS ones in this pic.

So, there are two sides to everything and it's all about personal preference.

Ed
 
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Not a fan (generally) of the celluloid/acrylic knives myself...Here's my one and only...Not really celluloid or tortoise shell but it's a real Camillus stockman from the late 90's in good old 1095:

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(Purchased from the late James Mattis before his untimely departure. His presence on these forums will always be missed.)
 
That faux tortoise shell is stunning, Elliot. Dennis puts on a great show with his GEC acrylics also. I think that some of the newest acrylic is a good rival to the best of the old cell.
 
tongueriver said:
That faux tortoise shell is stunning, Elliot. Dennis puts on a great show with his GEC acrylics also. I think that some of the newest acrylic is a good rival to the best of the old cell.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Cal. :cool: I remember sitting in Rob Simonich's shop up in Clancy, MT arguing (under the influence of some beverage or other) whose Camillus faux tortoise shell knife was nicer...mine (the stockman), or his (a trapper). Rob always did fancy the trappers. (Another forum original gone but never forgotten.)
 
Fight'n Rooster used some absolutely stunning celluloid. I have never seen any acrylic that even comes close to this beauty owned by mckgreg, which I covet:

orig.jpg
 
the important thing with celluloids is to check your knives regulary since off gassing will show as a slight discoloration of the liners & exposed blade sides. once it starts it's time to get that knife to the garage since i do'nt think the deterioation can be arrested.
dennis
 
moonwilson said:
Fight'n Rooster used some absolutely stunning celluloid. I have never seen any acrylic that even comes close to this beauty owned by mckgreg, which I covet:

orig.jpg
Click to expand...

Yup. I'd a bought that too if I had an opportunity. It is absolutel gorgeous! Everything about that knife is magnificant, including the celluloid.

Ed
 
Broken chain is nice.
00toothpick.gif

I regret not buying more in the series.

Here's plain black that seems to be breaking down
PopsTpkB.gif

That was my Dad's EDC back in the 60's.
Tell tale darkening of the blade where it is out of the handle...

Here it is cleaned up some
popsTpkA.gif

You can see how the scales are shrinking away from the bolsters.
 
Is the 'plain black' (jigged black really) celluloid ? i don't think so. that stuff shrinks but does not give off noxious gas. least that's what i think is correct, but would like correction please if wrong.
roland
 
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