Celluloid still used as a knife scale material.... I am kinda surprised....

PocketKnifeJimmy

PocketKnifeJimmy

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I have read about the pitfalls of celluloid (in it's various forms) as a handle material. I guess it was commonly used by knife makers at one time. Anyhow, my reading turned up that many of them older knife scales are badly deterioting (cracking, shrinking)... and that some of the stuff gave off some sort of gas over the years, likely during their deteriation, that would cause it's steel blades, and other surounding knife blades, to rust up. So, yesterday noticed a current French made knife that is listed as having celluloid handles. Not sure the exact makeup of these handles... but with celluloid reputation, I was surprised to see it still gets used. It may or may not have the same issues as celluloid of days gone by... but, I surely would not take the chance, especially with so many other proven materials available. On another, but related note... though I know stag is held in high regard... but for some reason the look of all the so many styles of jigged bone, are more attractive in my eyes... but that is just my opinion :-)
 
I've noticed that too and wondered why they would still use dodgy olden day technology celluloid when much better materials are around these days. I reckon its different stuff and not the same as olden day cel.
Why would it still be used ?
Its like making a smartphone out of bakelite (in terms of how far plastics have advanced in the last 70 odd years).
PKJ you are talking my lingo on the jigged bone as well.
 
I don't think they are using real celluloid, most if not all are using acrylic or other types of "plastic".

Best regards

Robin
 
meako said:
I've noticed that too and wondered why they would still use dodgy olden day technology celluloid when much better materials are around these days. I reckon its different stuff and not the same as olden day cel.
Why would it still be used ?
Its like making a smartphone out of bakelite (in terms of how far plastics have advanced in the last 70 odd years).
PKJ you are talking my lingo on the jigged bone as well.
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Yeah... I really don't find most stag very attractive... but I guess my eyes are different in what they see. Just glad we have oh so many different choices out there for knife handle material :-) I do like and have ebony wood, wood laminate, and bone. I have, but don't care for, Delrin. I would like to add mother of pearl, and elephant ivory.... but that ivory can really add cost to a knife! Currently having a Tidioute French Kate in ebony, I would love to have the French Kate with the Ivory... but it over doubles the price... so I don't know if I like it so much to spend 180 bucks on one! lol! ;-)
 
Ivory schmivory-mate its not all that good except price wise.I got a mammoth ivory GEC 79 and if I'm honest IMO its not all that beautiful compared to some of my other knives of bone and wood. Its probably the most expensive knife I own and as a knife it is great. The only thing that really appeals to me about the ivory is the age of it and the connection to ancient times. A talking point.
I saw a recent thread here with comparative pics of ivory bone and elephant ivory and I thought the bone looked better.
I will always be a fan of sawcut delrin and Staglon though and I do like antler.
 
meako said:
Ivory schmivory-mate its not all that good except price wise.I got a mammoth ivory GEC 79 and if I'm honest IMO its not all that beautiful compared to some of my other knives of bone and wood. Its probably the most expensive knife I own and as a knife it is great. The only thing that really appeals to me about the ivory is the age of it and the connection to ancient times. A talking point.
I saw a recent thread here with comparative pics of ivory bone and elephant ivory and I thought the bone looked better.
I will always be a fan of sawcut delrin and Staglon though and I do like antler.
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One thing about Ivory and Ivory bone is that they both look better after carry. The Ivory Bone that GEC puts out just looks carried already naturally. I don't have the courage to take out and carry my actual ivory:o
 
I find a lot of new stag looks kind of ugly, - especially when it is very asymmetrical or extremely fat, I didn't really see the big deal until I got the bertram half-stockman from Carl, with stag scales I understood the charm more - its very light compared to bone, which changes the balance of the knife, it feels still lighter than it is, and it wears very beautifully, taking on a shiny, buttery look. I like bone, because of the variety and the price, but would upgrade to stag if I saw a good looking example.
 
I have a few Bulldog knives, 2004 vintage that appear to be celluloid. I didn't know it at the time and I wish they weren't because some of the scales are already shrinking and "gassing". The nickel silver shields and bolsters of these two turn black after a few months, one bolster is pitted , but the blades are ok.

 
A lot of 'acrylic'-scaled knives are misidentified as celluloid, and attempt to mimick the aesthetics of it. I remember seeing the description in many mail-order knife catalogs back in the '90s, but celluloid hasn't actually been used on new knives in this country since the '50s/'60s (maybe earlier; see linked article below). I'm pretty sure whatever vendors are still calling it such, either don't know the difference or are attempting to cash in on the old-school appeal of it. I think even the manufacture of real celluloid has been banned in some countries, because the stuff is a fire hazard (it has been known to spontaneously combust).

This has been posted before, but I'm linking it again here. It's a great read on celluloid:

http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/celluloid_02.html


David
 
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There's a difference between the old celluloid (nitrocellulous--which had amazing clarity and definition) and celluloid acetate (the new stuff which looks almost, but not quite, as good and has no stability problems.

Interestingly, I've posted my concerns about older nitrocellulous on a Fountain Pen forum, and they don't have the same experience with celluloid offgassing as we do in the knife world. i think different grades of nitrocellulous were used and the knife stuff was less stable.
 
celluloid hasn't actually been used on new knives in this country since the '50s/'60s
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Case Classics made in the 1990's used celluloid, and some flavors gas out quite frequently. Almost every candystripe handle I see, I can see the start of it. There are a few other flavors that are pretty consistent gassers, but the candystripe gets my vote as the worst.
 
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I am not a fan of anything that even looks like Celluloid. That being said, I, like the others, think the majority now is acrylic with none of the same issues.
 
I got a celluloid Case select peanut a few years back and they (Case) said it was the real celluloid. I asked if it was really celluloid considering what is common knowledge of it chemically breaking down with disastrous results. I keep my little suicide bomber in a Kraft cheese jar separate from all other knives. Oh and it is the candystripe.
 
I saw a whole bunch of Bulldog brand knives in a display case a couple of years ago that had started gassing off and corroding the blades and bolsters of every knife in the case. I also find it difficult to believe that as flammable and prone to failure celluloid is that any company would still use the stuff. Plastics have come a long way and the look of cell can be achieved with materials that won't deteriorate.
 
smokinbasser said:
I got a celluloid Case select peanut a few years back and they (Case) said it was the real celluloid. I asked if it was really celluloid considering what is common knowledge of it chemically breaking down with disastrous results. I keep my little suicide bomber in a Kraft cheese jar separate from all other knives. Oh and it is the candystripe.
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If it breaks down it might improve the flavour of the "cheese".
 
I'm new to this forum but have been collecting celluloid fountain pens from the 30's and 40's for 35 years now.

Celluloid is still used to make certain limited edition and high end fountain pens because no other materials perfectly replicate the depth of color, marbling and pearlescence of nitrocellulose plastic. The good news is that, properly cured, nitrocellulose generally lasts at least 40 years. When I first started collecting, many nitrocellulose pens had discoloration and some had shrinking, but very few were deteriorating--crazing, going transparent, cracking and crumbling--as some are now.

Quarantining the bad ones is now commonly done with pens. It is believed that exposure to the sulphur in rubber accelerates the decline. UV light exposure and high humidity are also believed to be problematic, as is high heat. Outgassing definitely affects neighboring celluloid, as well as base metal. (since most quality pens have gold nibs and gold-filled hardware, corrosion is less of an issue than with knives, but it's interesting to note that in the pen world, most people think that the typical corrosion on chrome and rhodium plated fittings is due to poor original quality, rather than outgassing).

The other big culprit is manufacturers who failed to properly cure the celluloid, which could require months and high heat. These problems persist for some modern celluloid pen manufacturers. But I'm happy to report that most celluloid pens did not start deteriorating before the 1980s, meaning that they were good for 50 or so years.

I have a new celluloid pen that I purchased in 1993, manufactured by a pen company that had been making this plastic since the 30's. It is still perfect and going strong. If it lasts me for another 20 years or so, I will consider it money well spent. It will outlast the many cheap imitations being cranked out today.

I hope this was new information from another collecting realm that may be helpful here. There is some technology to fuse cracks, but everyone considers the deterioration, once it starts, to be irreparable--and unstoppable.
 
2Dead said:
One thing about Ivory and Ivory bone is that they both look better after carry. The Ivory Bone that GEC puts out just looks carried already naturally. I don't have the courage to take out and carry my actual ivory:o
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I'd consider mammoth ivory to have been well and truly carried by now.I doubt if I 'll make a difference to it.
Like wise with the its so expensive I don't want to risk losing, dropping, scratching or besmirching it in some way.
But hey -its off a mammoth and that's a big hairy elephant from the past ,right?
 
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