CFK Knife update and company history

[hermit dave]

That's a simple case of to good to be true. I'm guessing most buyers know that their not getting the real deal. I've seen everything from Buck to Chris Reeve knives for sale from Chinese sellers. Usually at a fraction of the price. I just checked and you can get this same counterfeit knife for $95. If the listing states
"from China" It's a fake.

HINDERER XM-18 blue anodized titanium folding knife Sweden sandvik 12c27 blade '

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[Stargater]

I have to agree that the words "custom" and "hand made" are abused all over Ebay. And yes, CFK is inconsistent on their description of where their knives are made. I was [skeptical] of CFK until I purchased a skinner from them. The fit and finish [were] outstanding and the edge held up to a lot of abuse. I'm also very pleased with their customer service. I requested a return on one of their knives and promptly received a return shipping label and was refunded every penny (including return shipping)

When I first ordered one of their knives, I didn't care if it was made from 420 stainless. As I got more knives, the more impressed I became with the strength of their knives. I've looked at other vendors on eBay I know deal in Pakistani knives, and I don't see the same knife patterns. And the knives are nowhere as massive as some of the knives CFK sell. Normally I'm not for beating on knives, nor for batoning them, but I know many of their knives are up to it. And I'm talking about those with the saw tooth notches on top! But knives are more than just strength. Some actually cut. And I still can't swear the steel they advertise as D2 is actually D2, but I'll eventually find out. For now, all I want to know is whether it's feasible that it is? Many users wouldn't be able to tell a D2 edge from a 420 edge (some of it is more between the ears). Only those who do a great deal of cutting can tell. Some of us primarily use our knives to open UPS packages containing other knives . But if I had to go hiking or camping, I'm more likely to put my faith in a CFK long blade than I am a Buck Hoodlum that tends to break at the notch! (And I have one.) It's a good knife, but isn't made for a lot of bending or prying. Many CFK knives, on the other hand, can.

The knives CFK produces are not production knives per se. No two are exactly alike and you can find many imperfections in the sheaths (scratches and other blemishes) as well as tool marks and uneven jiimping. Some knives fall out when the sheaths are held up upside down, and you can find marks on the handles. But people aren't returning them, reselling them or paying less than they were for them. In fact, people are now paying more than a hundred dollars for their larger knives (ones I got for $65)! And that doesn't include shipping. So despite the controversy, sales are booming. Their mirror-Polished knives are beautiful and are going for premium prices. And their blue and white Micarta gripped models are tough to win at auction because people are willing to pay for their beauty.

So who knows? We know no more than we did at the beginning, yet more, not less, are being sold. In fact, I may be bidding against a number of you here. And like many of you, I look forward to getting to the bottom line.



.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Not reselling? Have you search ePrey? They appear from a variety of sellers, and by "they" I mean the trademarked knives, as opposed to the unbranded "custom" knives they sell to resellers.

 

[crufflers]

You want to see a similar brand stamped "USA"? Check out the big online reseller that starts with "A" or Google it, and search for "moorhaus". They have damascus as well as polished steel D2 knives. Check out the ones that are stamped with a logo and also try to find the stacked leather handled "Vietnam" knives. Some are identical or almost identical to the CFK. I'd actually have to pull out my leather handle bowie and compare to the pictures to see if there is any variation at all. This moorhaus brand is not auction format so prices are about double. It seems to be the same design to me.

 

[Stargater]

Yes, I've seen Moorhaus, Custom.Knife.Gallery, TNZ and others, and yes there are some strong similarities in appearance (such as the notched sawteeth on the spine and the various configurations), but I have found no links associating these blades with either China or Pakistan. Most, in fact, appear to be quality productions -- not in the sense that actual custom knives are, but in the sense of a good bang for the buck. That said, this is only the case if the materials (especially blade steel) are as advertised. If the D2 blanks are actually made in Pakistan from polished rolled or folded steel, then there's a problem. And that's the $64 question. On eBay, you can use a 440A stainless blank to make a "handmade" or "custom" knife, then advertise it as a custom knife with S30V stainless steel, and unless you have very highly specialized, expensive equipment, you can't tell by looking what kind of steel you've got. And batoning the knife doesn't do a bloody thing.

Only by testing the product in actual cutting tests can one even begin testing knives. I've bought a few of the Magnum series of Böker knives, which are made using 440A stainless blade steel, and none of them cut worth a damn. Also, I couldn't sharpen them. But years ago I bought several Cold Steel knives with 440A knife steel that were so sharp they could (and did) draw blood. And they were (and are) easy to sharpen. In this case it's that a few knives weren't properly heat treated and others were. It wasn't the steel's fault. In this case it was the company's fault. So there are many variables involved. If I judged 440A by the knives, in one set of knives I could conclude it junk, while with the other I could conclude it's great. In the case of CFK, it doesn't prove anything to pound a knife into a log and split it. Even a low grade steel will do that.

°°°

 

[crufflers]

Yes, I've seen Moorhaus, Custom.Knife.Gallery, TNZ and others, and yes there are some strong similarities in appearance (such as the notched sawteeth on the spine and the various configurations), but I have found no links associating these blades with either China or Pakistan. Most, in fact, appear to be quality productions -- not in the sense that actual custom knives are, but in the sense of a good bang for the buck. That said, this is only the case if the materials (especially blade steel) are as advertised. If the D2 blanks are actually made in Pakistan from polished rolled or folded steel, then there's a problem. And that's the $64 question. On eBay, you can use a 440A stainless blank to make a "handmade" or "custom" knife, then advertise it as a custom knife with S30V stainless steel, and unless you have very highly specialized, expensive equipment, you can't tell by looking what kind of steel you've got. And batoning the knife doesn't do a bloody thing.

Only by testing the product in actual cutting tests can one even begin testing knives. I've bought a few of the Magnum series of Böker knives, which are made using 440A stainless blade steel, and none of them cut worth a damn. Also, I couldn't sharpen them. But years ago I bought several Cold Steel knives with 440A knife steel that were so sharp they could (and did) draw blood. And they were (and are) easy to sharpen. In this case it's that a few knives weren't properly heat treated and others were. It wasn't the steel's fault. In this case it was the company's fault. So there are many variables involved. If I judged 440A by the knives, in one set of knives I could conclude it junk, while with the other I could conclude it's great. In the case of CFK, it doesn't prove anything to pound a knife into a log and split it. Even a low grade steel will do that.

°°°

There is ALL of that, and I agree. Also, the adverts and company info really steer potential buyers (especially naive ones) into believing these are hand made in the USA knives. The thing that screams "ask some questions" is the price. If someone is really feeling the buyer's remorse after grabbing one of these and CFK actually accepts the return and issues refunds, that mitigates it for sure.

I used my patina tested 8" "kitchen bowie" over the weekend to chop of petrified dead palm branches off trees in one stroke, and then break down fresh pineapples. It worked really well for both of those tasks

If I paid $150 for a buy it now CFK knife one that was bid up... I'd probably feel like I could have bought a SYKCO 711, Regulator, Esse, OKC, Kabar, or similar. However, they are $40 to $60 and I did my research ahead of buying. Everyone doesn't. I doubt we'll get more answers unless we find them ourselves. Wasn't there someone doing YouTube reviews and promising new info in this thread?

 

[Stargater]

...adverts and company info really steer potential buyers (especially naive ones) into believing these are hand made in the USA knives. The thing that screams "ask some questions" is the price. If someone is really feeling the buyer's remorse after grabbing one of these and CFK actually accepts the return and issues refunds, that mitigates it for sure.

Yes, and CFK has been very fortunate in that even experienced buyers are purchasing them. That said, CFK isn't the only company out there that's advertising "handmade" D2 knives. But are they handmade? Technically yes. You have people out there who build desktop computers. But do they construct the motherboards, computer cases, CPUs, video cards, memory, Ethernet IP/OP and so forth? No. They merely slap them together. And this can be beneficial if the components are first rate. I used to build my own for this very reason. I read reviews on every component, even power supplies. So if these guys are buying D2 knife blanks from the U.K., Micarta from Estonia and the hex screws from Australia, yeah, they're handmade -- but hardly "custom." Their customers can only buy the products that are offered. (I asked if they could sharpen a false edge on a knife I bought from them, and they said no, even though I was willing to pay for it. So there's nothing custom about that.)

I used my patina tested 8" "kitchen bowie" over the weekend to chop of petrified dead palm branches off trees in one stroke, and then break down fresh pineapples. It worked really well for both of those tasks

Exactly! I'll say this for CFK knives: there's nothing wimpy about them. But batoning them proves what? Why were real street gangs using kitchen knives in the 1950s while movie gangs used switchblades? The switchblades look cool, sure, but street gangs weren't concerned with that. They wanted to be able to walk away from a fight. So sometimes we lose sight of reality v. expectations. We go for the "sizzle" and not the steak. We have a bunch of guys batoning the hell out of CFK knives, and I'm sitting there thinking, "Hmmm...I wonder how they cut?" or "I wonder if those blades are really D2?"

If I paid $150 for a buy it now CFK knife one that was bid up... I'd probably feel like I could have bought a SYKCO 711, Regulator, Esse, OKC, Kabar, or similar. However, they are $40 to $60 and I did my research ahead of buying. Everyone doesn't. I doubt we'll get more answers unless we find them ourselves. Wasn't there someone doing YouTube reviews and promising new info in this thread?

Yes, but in all fairness, many of my knife purchases from them have been short swords. All of those other brands don't offer that kind of knife for any price. Look for what the BUCK Hoodlum sells for. CFK offers knives larger than that for a fraction of a price, and if the blade is really D2, it's not a bad deal. But if we can't take CFK's word, yes, we have to find the answers ourselves. We also have to consider those other companies selling cheap D2 and determine whether it's German D2 or Pakistanni Damascus 2.0.



Look, ma, no notch!

°°°

 

[Thomas Linton]

You cannot see heat treatment. You have to rely of the skill and integrity of the makers. When its all a Super Spy secret . . .

 

[Stargater]

Well, if you were going to believe them, what information would you have to know? What sort of test can be done? Just because a knife comes in a box means little these days. S&W says many of its knives are 440C. Judging by my experience, the build of many of its knives are low quality and of liner-lock design; however, the blades can be readily sharpened and they stay sharp a respectable time. The Böker Magnum series, on the other hand, comes dull and stays dull, neither can they be sharpened. Having the Böker name means nothing (and their blades are said to be 440A). So we seem to have a heat treat problem with the Böker, but not with the S&W. So if we assume S&W isn't lying, we could conclude that perhaps its knives aren't as bad as some say.

There are a lot of cheap knives out there claiming to be D2, so I'd love to have the background on where it's coming from and where all of this started.

°°°

 

[Sam Wilson]

Well, if you were going to believe them, what information would you have to know? What sort of test can be done? Just because a knife comes in a box means little these days. S&W says many of its knives are 440C. Judging by my experience, the build of many of its knives are low quality and of liner-lock design; however, the blades can be readily sharpened and they stay sharp a respectable time. The Böker Magnum series, on the other hand, comes dull and stays dull, neither can they be sharpened. Having the Böker name means nothing (and their blades are said to be 440A). So we seem to have a heat treat problem with the Böker, but not with the S&W. So if we assume S&W isn't lying, we could conclude that perhaps its knives aren't as bad as some say.

There are a lot of cheap knives out there claiming to be D2, so I'd love to have the background on where it's coming from and where all of this started.

°°°

This has been covered ad nauseum in this thread. CFK has been called out, and they refuse to "reveal" where these knives are made/assembled. People can argue all day long about the different details, and personally I don't care much. CFK has told me exactly what I thought to be the truth from the beginning by their repeated failure to answer simple questions.

As far as the steels, read the thread again. Look at the cost of using high quality "clean" D2 and manufacturing in a 1st world economy like the U.K. or here, and tell me if it adds up. Let me give you a hint: No, it doesn't. They can do what they want and I really don't care about them selling knives. I just like honesty to go along with it, and I don't believe I have been told an honest story about it. Again, there is a ton of circumstantial evidence in this thread, with the only answer from CFK being "Yes, we make the knives in England." Wow, a mountain of proof...

Did you read a couple of pages back where even knifemakers in England didn't go for the "Made in England" story? This is obvious for anyone that looks at it objectively. As for whether they make decent knives for the price, that was never my concern.

 

[Stargater]

I have to admit that what you say makes sense. One clue is that the same people offering the new cheap D2 knives are the same people who specialize in cheap Damascus. I'm wondering if the two steels aren't the same. The blades appear to be of the same type and configuration as the Damascus (D1) blades (thick, heavy spines, sawtooth notches, unique designs, micarta handles and stitched leather sheaths). And since the D1 steel is a mixture of other steels, simply polishing it rather than etching it would simply be another iteration (D2) of the same steel, which, by the way, would have the same tendancy to rust and corrode as its D1.

This, of course, is just a theory. But judging from the evidence, one has to wonder why the glut of D2, and why is it coming from those who deal so closely with the Asian Damascus trade? The burden of proof is on them.

°°°

 

[crufflers]

Yes, but in all fairness, many of my knife purchases from them have been short swords. All of those other brands don't offer that kind of knife for any price. Look for what the BUCK Hoodlum sells for. CFK offers knives larger than that for a fraction of a price, and if the blade is really D2, it's not a bad deal. But if we can't take CFK's word, yes, we have to find the answers ourselves. We also have to consider those other companies selling cheap D2 and determine whether it's German D2 or Pakistanni Damascus 2.0.

That's great, but when you pay more for USA made stuff you are paying for known quality level and supporting companies that you can trust. My OKC RTAKII has over a 10" blade for $80, the Esse Junglas, Sykco 911, 1311, 1111, Swamp Rat Rucki, Rodent 9, etc... are also available on the secondary market if you watch. Great bargains for known quality levels, steel, and fantastic heat treats that have proven out with use.

If you want bargain basement blades, why not buy up all the ELK RIDGE choppers, axes, and survival blades from BIG5 for $9.99 each? Aren't those a great deal too? I'd like to see a comparo and destruction test of a $10 15" Elk Ridge chopper, a $60 CFK 9" .25" D2 blade chopper, and a SYKCO 911.

 

[crufflers]

But batoning them proves what?

If you baton through a knot or some green wood and the edge rolls over or chips off it would prove something about a knife. Conversely if you use it as your wood processing knife for a few years and it performs like a big expensive knife did for you, that would prove something too... IMHO.

Batoning one log doesn't prove much unless the blade snaps in half.

 

[crufflers]

Check out the new descriptive blurb on the D2 auctions. It is now "specially formulated to be high in chromium to prevent rusting". Wow.

"CFK D2 KNIVES: We have our D2 specially formulated to be high in chromium to help prevent rusting / staining. Our D2 is vacuum heat treated to 59HRC. Our edges are sharp and the blade is designed for hard core abuse as well as skinning and hunting tasks. Whether you are batonning or skinning a kill, the blade will take a beating and continue to perform. We are so confident in our blade strengths that we guarantee the knife for life. We use only the nicest handle materials and design the toughest builds to create an almost unlimited supply of modern looking designs for hunters, bushcraftors, military, and survivalist. Our knives come with a premium thick-cut buffalo leather double stitched sheath. We are currently being featured in the "Alaska Sporting Journal" & "California Sportsman" magazine in the "Get it in GEAR" section, as the choice knife company for our D2 hunting knives for September - December 2015. Join the thousands of patrons of our premium D2 knives, sold wholesale direct, at the best prices in the world.

-------- KNIFE & SHEATH SPECIFICATIONS -------
THIS KNIFE WILL PENETRATE SOFT ARMORS"

 

[hermit dave]

.....the never-ending thread.....

 

[buckfynn]

This has been covered ad nauseum in this thread. CFK has been called out, and they refuse to "reveal" where these knives are made/assembled. People can argue all day long about the different details, and personally I don't care much. CFK has told me exactly what I thought to be the truth from the beginning by their repeated failure to answer simple questions.

As far as the steels, read the thread again. Look at the cost of using high quality "clean" D2 and manufacturing in a 1st world economy like the U.K. or here, and tell me if it adds up. Let me give you a hint: No, it doesn't. They can do what they want and I really don't care about them selling knives. I just like honesty to go along with it, and I don't believe I have been told an honest story about it. Again, there is a ton of circumstantial evidence in this thread, with the only answer from CFK being "Yes, we make the knives in England." Wow, a mountain of proof...

Did you read a couple of pages back where even knifemakers in England didn't go for the "Made in England" story? This is obvious for anyone that looks at it objectively. As for whether they make decent knives for the price, that was never my concern.

The calling out of CFK on the origins of their knives is the irony of this entire thread. Last_Ditch came here, I believe in good faith, to proclaim the transparency of CFK concerning where they were made.

During our chat, he offered all the information I could take in. Everything from the guys names in Essex, England that grind the blades, their phone numbers and contact information, to the guys in Oregon who put handles on the knives and do the finish work. He gave me general information on numbers of sales, where the leather comes from, and buying bulk steels. He talked about where the company started, where it was heading, the direction he wants to take it, and everything in between. The guy I spoke with seemed genuine and honest.

But when asked to provide the same information which was so openly given to Last_Ditch, DrBullDog, AKA Jason Baker, goes mute on such details. Until such information is provide openly and publically, everything about CFK knives should be considered suspect.

 

[IXLR8]

With all of this damning of cfk, Ive come to the conclusion that they probably make a pretty darn good knife for the money and that pisses some people off.
I see nearly 15 THOUSAND ebay sales and a 100% positive feedback. Believe me, if this company wasn't reputable or didn't stand behind the product , they would have been out of business on ebay 13 THOUSAND knives ago. You sink or swim on Ebay, and Apparently , if this is the case, CFK will represent the mens swim team in the next Olympic games.
I have noted that CFK also stands behind their product for life of the product. You send your failed knife, pick another one you like, they send it to you. Seems simple enough to me.

After 13 pages of condemnation, along with a broad spectrum of unproven allegations, I think I will try one of their knives.

 

[IXLR8]

But when asked to provide the same information which was so openly given to Last_Ditch, DrBullDog, AKA Jason Baker, goes mute on such details. Until such information is provide openly and publically, everything about CFK knives should be considered suspect.

I considerably suspect I'll own one.
Beautiful knives and ill bet you they are probably darn good too.

 

[crufflers]

After 13 pages of condemnation, along with a broad spectrum of unproven allegations, I think I will try one of their knives.

The allegations are that it is impossible to make a handmade knife like these in the USA for $40-$60 including a nice leather sheath unless you are using some kind of slave labor... and if the knives are made somewhere else, what other details are a fabrication? There are experienced knife makers and sheath makers in this thread that are giving their opinions.

Basically it is just math and CFK doesn't add up. I gave my opinions as a knife collector who has purchased nine of these after researching it - I still have seven or eight and I use them. If you want to buy one, buy one. I did the same thing. Definitely own one before you start betting people they are darn good.

How many hours does it take to make a knife with a micarta handle or stacked leather? How much do the materials cost? There are tons of cheapo fixed blades around for $10 to $40 from 6" bowies to 18" choppers usually from China and sold in places like Big5, Walmart, etc...

Part of the allure, hook, and perceived "value" of the CFK knives is buying into the story somewhat. The more you buy into it, the more you feel like you discovered a hidden gem or got the deal of a lifetime. Why would you not want the facts? It is your money. I'm not a hater. I have some and I like them. I'd like them more if the story was straight. I spend a lot of money on knives, even if they are Chinese made Spydercos. I like to know what I'm buying though. If I found out my Paramilitary2 was not really made in Golden Colorado, planet Earth or my S110V steel was scrapple... I'd be pissed.

 

[Thomas Linton]

With all of this damning of cfk, Ive come to the conclusion that they probably make a pretty darn good knife for the money and that pisses some people off.
I see nearly 15 THOUSAND ebay sales and a 100% positive feedback. Believe me, if this company wasn't reputable or didn't stand behind the product , they would have been out of business on ebay 13 THOUSAND knives ago. You sink or swim on Ebay, and Apparently , if this is the case, CFK will represent the mens swim team in the next Olympic games.
I have noted that CFK also stands behind their product for life of the product. You send your failed knife, pick another one you like, they send it to you. Seems simple enough to me.

After 13 pages of condemnation, along with a broad spectrum of unproven allegations, I think I will try one of their knives.

A. After years of unproven claims about their knives, we still await any confirmation beyond those claims.
B. Please do buy a CSK - or one of their many ePrey competitors who make the same claims about materials, quality, world-class makers, etc. Post a review, including your qualifications.
C. People buy 1000's of fantasy junk knives every day and love them. If you are happy, you are happy.
D. ePrey ratings are meaningless. Not much study by you will prove that to you.
E. Feel free to ignore the opinions of others. It's a free country, thankfully.