Changes in how I think about things - observations of a few years on W&SS.

[Raining]

3) "The one" does not exist.

WHAT?!!!! NOOOOooooooooooooooooooo!

Must...catch...breath...

 

[OwenM]

2) A decent working edge may be better than a shaving edge - if it means more toughness.

There's no such thing as a "working edge". It's either properly aligned(sharp), or it's not.
Sharpness is just two sides coming together at the same point.
It has nothing to do with how thick, or strong the edge is, or the level of polish. If it's not properly aligned, it's already "damaged" before you even use it, and is less tough, not more.

 

[never too sharp]

Nicely put, Mr philosopher. I agree w it, except I'd add that MRE meals are nasty. Just kidding!.

5) Don't hit one hatchet or axe with another.

6) Don't get an MRI in the same year after doing #5.

He said MRI, and how did I miss that story???

11) Humans are still communal animals - Bushcrafting is far more enjoyable with others.

12) Humans, united under a common cause, are good people. I have had tons of generosity on this board, both material and mental. For that I am appreciative.

Hear hear.

There's no such thing as a "working edge". It's either properly aligned(sharp), or it's not.
Sharpness is just two sides coming together at the same point.
It has nothing to do with how thick, or strong the edge is, or the level of polish. If it's not properly aligned, it's already "damaged" before you even use it, and is less tough, not more.

Don't derail this thread with the sharpening argument.

 

[Rick Marchand]

agreed

Rick

 

[Diomedes Industries]

agreed

Rick

Actually, I agree too. The language is just incorrect. TonyM, for instance, does not have a super high polish on his blades, but they are super sharp nonetheless.

What I was trying to express is that often in the search to get a high polish on a blade, I was rounding the edge and dulling it more.

I have learned now 'when to stop'. I think that is what I meant.

I think it goes back to the concept of 'learning what you know really well'. If you can put a polish on a blade really well - do it. If you can get a nice hair popping edge with 2000 grit sand paper but tend to screw it up when you go further, do that.

In terms of bushcraft, a sharp knife is needed - not something you can shave with at all times. I think my point was that the obsession with the edge takes away from the time you could be enjoying USING it.

TF

 

[j williams]

Don't derail this thread with the sharpening argument.

People are allowed to disagree with TFs points. Thats what makes discussion.....:thumbup:

1) agree.
2)I can see that, in some cases.
3) I disagree. I think the "one" is out there. Lots of guys have found it.
4)well said. :thumbup:
5) Im not sure I wanna know.
6) see above
7) Very true. :thumbup:
8) theroreticaly....I can see one getting all the knowlage they need.
9) I agree 100%. They same guys that bash the consumers are usually right in line with em. Coach purses, or Maxpedition bags...same thing.
10) Oh hell ya. Stick to what you know, and can do well, and hone those skills, before you move on to 100 new ones.
11) agree to a certain extent. I still really enjoy the solo time.
12) lots of good in this world, and on this board. However, their still is alot of combative pricks that love to force their my d*&k is bigger then yours mentality on you.


All in all, great points TF. Its amazing how the years go by what you learn and how close you get with people you meet here. I look back with a fondness at who I was 5 years ago when I joined, and all I have learned since. Almost a night/day differance in what I thought I knew and needed. Really is cool.

Great thread buddy.

 

[kgd]

In terms of bushcraft, a sharp knife is needed - not something you can shave with at all times. I think my point was that the obsession with the edge takes away from the time you could be enjoying USING it. TF

Yes, people get far too pre-occupied with sharpness and use the phrase, 'a sharp knife is less dangerous than a dull knife' too much. I agree with the sentiment of the mantra, but people twist that phrase into thinking they need hair popping sharpness all the time. Also, the elaborate attempts to bring sharpening instruments in the bush for a 2 day camping trip just seems goofy to me unless you are planning on processing 3 deer while you are out there. I always like to start my trip with a sharp knife, but I don't get all full of panic when after a day or two in the field it isn't hair shaving any more. The edge is usually usable long after you have difficulty shaving with it. It also gives me the enjoyment of engaging in proper maintenance when I go back home and have to suffer real life again.

Now, part of the reason people get like this is because they just like sharpening their blades and they view sharpening as part of the activity they engage in for entertainment and the ability to show off their abilities via forums. Look at all the posts demonstrating the most useless activity of all - whittling hair. Mind you, if you enjoy sharpening and a lot of people do (myself included) then just say as such. Don't try to rationalize your behavior as being some kind of 'survival' skill which I often see. Its not, apart from being able to use a rock to get a working edge if you need to, being able to get your edge 'hair popping' in the field will not likely increase your ability to survive nor will it greatly influence your ability to engage in bushcraft.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

J Williams,

Thanks - concerning #3 (The one knife).

I think what I am finding - is that there is a type of knife that works well for me - and there are quite a few that fit that bill. I also think that the more I increase in knowledge and practice - the less I think the knife has to be special.

I think that is what I was trying to say.


KGD, I think you said it FAR better than I did.


I love this thread. It has allowed me to think more about my statements. I love your challenges and agreements.

TF

 

[Rotte]

3) I disagree. I think the "one" is out there. Lots of guys have found it.

Fun thread, love points 5&6. Hope that is not wisdom earned the hard way....

As for 3, I have to agree that there is no "one". Lots of guys have found one that works for them, but I bet you could give those guys a different knife and they would be just as effective with the alternate. My grandfather had "one", a Marbles-type clip point. But I think he was satisfied with that one and just stopped looking for anything else. He had a knife and he used it. Simple. But that doesn't mean it was the "one."

I'm an amateur "wilderness survivor" but I know some guys who are on a more serious level. To them a knife is just a knife. Heresy here, but in the real world it's skills and attitude that make the difference. Not whether you have a spear point 4" knife or a 4.25" drop point. And look at how each type of environment creates a different set of needs. A machete may be more useful in one environment, an axe in another, maybe a knife in a third.

I like the fact the Ray Mears (or TF) is so damn fussy about his knife and it's design. It makes him one of us. But there are plenty of guys who have never used anything but a Buck 110 or K-bar and never had an issue or "need" for a different knife. In fact, it may be more important to learn to use different types of knives effectively than to become a master with just one. You never know when you'll end up in situation with something that is less than your ideal knife.

Lastly, I'll say that in the tame environment of my kitchen I use about 4 or 5 different knives consistently: paring, boning, Chef's, Santuko, and Chinese cleaver. That's just in my kitchen. I have several others, but these are the "go to" knives for me. I could probably get by with just a Chef's knife, but it would hardly be "the one". That's why I have 10. There's no way to have an ideal knife for wilderness survival given the multiplicity of tasks it is being asked to perform. The wilderness knife is a complete compromise.

 

[banana-clip]

Great read

 

[j williams]

J Williams,

Thanks - concerning #3 (The one knife).

I think what I am finding - is that there is a type of knife that works well for me - and there are quite a few that fit that bill. I also think that the more I increase in knowledge and practice - the less I think the knife has to be special.

I think that is what I was trying to say.


KGD, I think you said it FAR better than I did.


I love this thread. It has allowed me to think more about my statements. I love your challenges and agreements.

TF

Now I got ya.....Very well said bro. :thumbup:

 

[j williams]

Fun thread, love points 5&6. Hope that is not wisdom earned the hard way....

As for 3, I have to agree that there is no "one". Lots of guys have found one that works for them, but I bet you could give those guys a different knife and they would be just as effective with the alternate. My grandfather had "one", a Marbles-type clip point. But I think he was satisfied with that one and just stopped looking for anything else. He had a knife and he used it. Simple. But that doesn't mean it was the "one."

I'm an amateur "wilderness survivor" but I know some guys who are on a more serious level. To them a knife is just a knife. Heresy here, but in the real world it's skills and attitude that make the difference. Not whether you have a spear point 4" knife or a 4.25" drop point. And look at how each type of environment creates a different set of needs. A machete may be more useful in one environment, an axe in another, maybe a knife in a third.

I like the fact the Ray Mears (or TF) is so damn fussy about his knife and it's design. It makes him one of us. But there are plenty of guys who have never used anything but a Buck 110 or K-bar and never had an issue or "need" for a different knife. In fact, it may be more important to learn to use different types of knives effectively than to become a master with just one. You never know when you'll end up in situation with something that is less than your ideal knife.

Lastly, I'll say that in the tame environment of my kitchen I use about 4 or 5 different knives consistently: paring, boning, Chef's, Santuko, and Chinese cleaver. That's just in my kitchen. I have several others, but these are the "go to" knives for me. I could probably get by with just a Chef's knife, but it would hardly be "the one". That's why I have 10. There's no way to have an ideal knife for wilderness survival given the multiplicity of tasks it is being asked to perform. The wilderness knife is a complete compromise.

Great post Rotte.

 

[Watchful]

- All gear becomes heavy, but knowledge weighs nothing. Pack as much as you like.

- Somebody, somewhere, has already found a better, faster way to do what you're learning. Find them.

- As bad as it gets, it can always get worse: first, cheer up, and two, get ready for the next setback.

 

[SouthernCross]

G'day Ken

Yes, people get far too pre-occupied with sharpness and use the phrase, 'a sharp knife is less dangerous than a dull knife' too much. I agree with the sentiment of the mantra, but people twist that phrase into thinking they need hair popping sharpness all the time. Also, the elaborate attempts to bring sharpening instruments in the bush for a 2 day camping trip just seems goofy to me unless you are planning on processing 3 deer while you are out there. I always like to start my trip with a sharp knife, but I don't get all full of panic when after a day or two in the field it isn't hair shaving any more. The edge is usually usable long after you have difficulty shaving with it.

Bolded emphasis added by myself.

Being someone who uses the term "working edge" I have to agree :thumbup:

A good example of what I describe as a "working edge" is shown in the video below.

[youtube]je8CgtP1-jU[/youtube]

The edge shown was after 5 solid days of use on seasoned Aussie hardwoods without any touching up of the edge at all.

Could it still shave arm hair?......No.

Was it still useable to shave kindling chips off a seasoned hardwood limb (including cutting through knots in the wood).....Clearly yes :thumbup:

In my experience, razors seem impressive when used to shave hair, but they don't last long in the bush when used on seasoned hardwoods





Kind regards
Mick

 

[Rockywolf]

He said MRI, and how did I miss that story???

HAHA! Indeed. That's what I get for reading on my phone while I'm supposed to be working! BUSTED!

So, TF, what IS the MRI story?

 

[Diomedes Industries]

So, I am sure some of you remember the piece of steel I shot in my leg after hitting two hatchets together. It is about 1/8th inch square and it is about three inches in my right thigh. The doctor and I decided to leave it there after seeing it wasn't near any major nerves or arteries.

A few months later I tweaked my previously injured knee (the reason I was given a medical discharge from the Marine Corps by Uncle Sam) and the pain sent me in to an orthopedic doctor to see what had happened to it.

I was told I needed an MRI and I informed them about the piece of metal in my other leg. They told me it was no problem. As soon as the cart I was laying on slid into the machine, I could feel the piece of metal being pulled by the huge magnet in the MRI.

It wasn't pleasant, but I simply applied my super tough Zen Shaolin Buddhist Ninja training to block out the pain. Those techniques, to the outside observers may look like crying like a baby and whining like a little girl, but that is simply part of the Ninja disguising skills.

TF

 

[Rick Marchand]

In my experience, razors seem impressive when used to shave hair, but they don't last long in the bush when used on seasoned hardwoods

So what you are saying is that a duller, toothy edge will last longer than a highly polished edge? I'm not sure I'm following.

All heat treats and blade geometries equal... a polished edge will outlast a duller, toothy edge... every time... without question. The myth of the razor sharpe edge being fragile stems from improper sharpening. Folks will alter geometry by lowering approach angles... they will unknowingly leave a burr or wire edge on the knife. This will shave hair and slice paper like crazy but fold under the pressure of wood. Straight razors work on a wire edge. The stroping aligns the edge. Straight razors suck in the bush... lol. You have to go that extra bit and remove the burr from your working knives. Then you will have a scarey sharp cutting edge with no ridges, scratches or imperfections to catch, create friction and cause your knife to dull prematurely. Metallurgy and physics will always prevail.


Rick

 

[OwenM]

Right. If you do the edge up right to begin with, it will last a lot longer. Yes, sharpening is an applicable skill.
I'd think that people talking about surviving based on their ability with simple tools would be the most interested in knowing the basics about how their primary tool in the woods works, how to make it perform optimally, and how to maintain it so that it keeps performing. For that matter, I don't see why anyone who carries and uses a knife/axe/etc. for any purpose wouldn't be interested in getting the best from it.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

I think my point is accurate though. Put a good edge on it, make sure it can do what you want, and let it go. Polishing and making it pretty can sometimes go against what you want.

Take my scandi edges for instance. I have been able to get a good looking edge for a long time - but only recently have been able to make them strong. I have been able to do this by learning how to quickly strop the edge properly. I think this takes off the burr of the edge that I was not able to get off by simply making it pretty.

Now that I have learned this, I spend less time on sharpening and my edge is better for it.

TF

 

[raybadge]

Another "well said," T.