Changes in the Knife World over the last 10 Yrs.

I’ve been dormant for awhile and have the same thought as you. Totally agree with you on #2. It’s comical the number of people now willing to spend custom money on production folders…

I think the issue is partly production folder prices are going up but custom prices have not been. So it’s bluring the line between the two. New comers that just chase fads don’t know any better.

I would add with out getting political is the number of foreign made knives that cost over $260. 10 years ago you’d get laughed out of the room and more importantly no brand would survive trying to charge that much margin. But now folks are ok with paying that much for foreign made knife, the magic number seems to be $280. I’m not ok with it, $150 is the limit for me on foreign made knife. (10 years ago this was $100, so I’m adjusting for inflation etc)

Another trend is exclusives for large online retailers… this is done as a way to compete but I’d say let’s all try to compete on price and not silly exclusive colors or steels…
 
IGotStabbed said:
I’ve been dormant for awhile and have the same thought as you. Totally agree with you on #2. It’s comical the number of people now willing to spend custom money on production folders…

I think the issue is partly production folder prices are going up but custom prices have not been. So it’s bluring the line between the two. New comers that just chase fads don’t know any better.

I would add with out getting political is the number of foreign made knives that cost over $260. 10 years ago you’d get laughed out of the room and more importantly no brand would survive trying to charge that much margin. But now folks are ok with paying that much for foreign made knife, the magic number seems to be $280. I’m not ok with it, $150 is the limit for me on foreign made knife. (10 years ago this was $100, so I’m adjusting for inflation etc)

Another trend is exclusives for large online retailers… this is done as a way to compete but I’d say let’s all try to compete on price and not silly exclusive colors or steels…
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A lot of the recent high end production folders are nearing or at the same quality as customs.

I'd put my arius up against a custom in the $1500 price range any day and I'd still probably choose the arius because I wouldn't feel bad beating it up.
 
midnight flyer said:
I would say that overall, over the last few years I agree with what has been posted about design and materials. New materials, new steels, new designs, that's just part of product development for just about any consumer items.

But attitudes about knives and their purpose has changed a lot over the last few years, never more apparent than here. I know I am showing my age here, but when I was a youngster, knives were tools. Something to be proud of, something that gave me a lot of pleasure to own nice examples of them. I have always loved a great knife. There were no knives to play with while watching TV. I hiked, camped, hunted, fished, and generally spent as much time outside as possible. Then I went into the construction trades at 16, and as a carpenter's helper a good knife was a must for me. There has literally never been a time in my life including most of grade school when I didn't have a knife in my pocket.

I judged a knife on how well it worked, how long it held an edge during the day, how well it held up as the only work knife I had to carry. A knife had to earn its place in my pocket, and the only acceptable brands for me were CASE, BUCK, and Boker. Couldn't afford PUMA, but sure did drool a lot at the sporting goods store at their display

But I have moved on with the times, too. I carry knives (Cold Steel, Spyderco, ZT, etc.) as large work knives that really on inspection are no more than a pile of pieces screwed together. The are designed to be assembled, then all surfaces ground flush to give the appearance of great fit. If you take 5 examples of those knives mentioned out of their boxes and put them next to each other, you couldn't tell the difference between knives because there is almost no hand fitting or polishing. Back a million years ago when I bought CASE folder, or a Boker, I had to look at the grinds (done by hand), the shaping and color of the bone/stag/phenolic materials, the walk and talk, and the guy at the sporting goods store had to tolerate me unboxing 3-4 of them to make sure I got a "good one". I made the knife I purchased my own by taking it to the stones after I wore out the factory edge, and it could take a day to re-bevel the blades where I wanted them.

Now when I buy a knife I flick it open a couple of times to see if it binds or grinds, make sure nothing is loose, and that the fit of the pieces is good and the grind isn't way off. My benchmarks aren't how rapid it deploys (NEVER been in a knife fight and have no training for one), don't care if it is a millimeter off center since I might bend it or it could wear back to perfect center, I was warned about pivot bearings here on BF on a work knife carried in a sweaty/dirty pocket (and they were right, caught the damage on my ZT right when it started to rust and foul - so no bearings). All of those things seem to be at the fore front of any knife buyer here on BF these days.

I would say that they last few years has brought about a knife designs that are made for collectibility rather than utility and there certainly isn't anything wrong with that. Knives to me now are where watches have been for some time; my buddy that collects and sells watches always says "if you want a reliable timepiece get a Casio. If you want a piece of jewelry that tells time, get a Rolex". PLENTY of Rolexes in the knife market these days.
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I agree and/or understand most of this. I've worked at a desk for 19 years, so my usage differs greatly. I've carried a knife since my great uncle gave me an SAK for my 7th birthday.

My late father's best friend is a finishing carpenter on high price homes. After finding out that I collected knives about 5 years ago, he came to me because for ages he would buy a cheap knife and throw it when dull. He wanted something that would be more durable. I turned him on to a Spyderco PM2 in CPM-S110V, and he loves it, tells me about it whenever I see him. He bought a sharpmaker to maintain it. He's 65 now, and does more supervising than physical labor, but still finds daily use for it. I'll see him in 2 weeks at my dad's memorial so it will be interesting to see what kind of shape it's in. Job like that bearings could be an issue.

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Comments on cars. I've had Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, and Toyota, as has my family. However, from 9/2011-3/2022 I've been driving Kias. Most reliable and cheap to maintain cars I've owned. I had a 2012 Forte which I sold to my cousin in 2018, 125k not a single issue. I also had a 2011 Sorento (I had bought my ex) and just sold it in March. Only issue was an intake plenum motor and the front control arms starting to go due to the crappy roads here in Chicagoland. Now I drive a 2022 Hyundai Tucson hybrid. My m9m drives a 2015, my grandma a 2015 Sorento.

My fathers 2003 Honda Pilot was a money pit, as was his 1990 VW Passat. His 2017 has been ok thus far, just a stereo short.
 
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I have felt that knives have become increasingly "status objects" and that people are either willing to spend more or there are more audience today to spend high amounts of money for knives. Weird considering that eveything has become increasingly expensive.
 
K.O.D. said:
I agree and/or understand most of this. I've worked at a desk for 19 years, so my usage differs greatly. I've carried a knife since my great uncle gave me an SAK for my 7th birthday.
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K.O.D. K.O.D. , Different strokes for different folks, right? Just because you can use what ever knife you want and carry just about anything isn't as much fun as some folks might think. I didn't always carry large work knives, though. I did take a detour and work for a Savings and Loan for a few years to get their construction portfolio lined back out, and then I carried a tiny little Buck, model unknown that had an 1 1/2" blade. I loved it, and it rotated with a Kershaw Whiskey Gap and a Gerber Silver Knight. Back in the late 80s, those were my first gentleman's knives and they did just fine. I never carry them, but I still have them somewhere.

K.O.D. said:
My late father's best friend is a finishing carpenter on high price homes. After finding out that I collected knives about 5 years ago, he came to me because for ages he would buy a cheap knife and throw it when dull. He wanted something that would be more durable. I turned him on to a Spyderco PM2 in CPM-S110V, and he loves it, tells me about it whenever I see him. He bought a sharpmaker to maintain it. He's 65 now, and does more supervising than physical labor, but still finds daily use for it. I'll see him in 2 weeks at my dad's memorial so it will be interesting to see what kind of shape it's in. Job like that bearings could be an issue.
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It is amazing to me how much some folks use their knives but never want to invest in them. I can tell you from experience ( I am 65 as well ) that most of the guys on site don't want to spend as much money for a knife like that Spyderco which is in the $225 range. What if they made a mistake? What if they didn't like the knife? What if someone stole it or broke it on site? Yikes! And put this in perspective; for a great deal of folks here it is apparent that money is of little concern when buying what they want. But as a "working man", you constantly need to replace or upgrade your tools. So, do you put $225 in a new knife, or put $199 into a compact driver and heavy duty drill set with two batteries and a charger with a lifetime warranty? Do you buy a new circular saw and a new hammer drill for the same money? How about a new Dewalt 10" miter saw for $225 or so, or a new job site ready compressor and a brad gun for the same $225? What would you get the most value from?

I got your Dad's buddy covered. It is a mind set, one that is deeply rooted in bang for the buck and actual utility value. I started out as a carpenter and made the jump to General Contractor many years ago. But I still do the more exacting or difficult tasks myself since qualified craftsmen are more rare than could be described these days. I am never far from my blue collar roots.

So good sir, good on you for giving him a great knife of that caliber. I would bet he would never have bought that for himself. I got a real charge out of how much he enjoys it; every craftsman enjoys using a good tool. And just think; one day he will retire and I would BET that knife will stay in his pocket.
 
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I've been using and carrying knives for well over thirty years. It started with SAKs and slipjoints. My transition into modern knives coincided with my discovery of assisted action sometime in the late 90s. Somewhere around 2016, I noticed that good manual actions were becoming more common and more affordable. Given that history, you know I'm a lover of good action, a crisp break, and flipper tabs. :cool:

The proliferation of bearings really is a big deal. Caged bearings in standard sizes have streamlined the process. There is an idea that assisted action was a substitute for good manual action and I buy into that. Assisted action was great when good manual actions were rarer or more expensive. Now that you can get decent manual action on bearings in $30 knives, more people seem to view assisted action as janky or consistent with low quality. The proliferation of ceramic bearings is more recent. Much like with assisted versus manual, steel bearings seem outdated now that ceramic is increasingly being used in sub-$50 Chinese knives.

That said, good Chinese knives are a reality now. Go figure that after so many years of American companies outsourcing, the Chinese manufacturers would learn to make decent knives on their own. The thing is that they didn't stop improving. Companies like Kershaw, CRKT, and even Spyderco have gotten complacent with their Chinese-made stuff. While those companies keep putting out $50 knives in FRN and 8Cr13Mov, the Chinese companies are offering G10 and Micarta with steels like 9Cr18Mov, 14C28N, N690, D2, AUS-10, or even a PM version of 9Cr18Mov at those kinds of prices. While Kershaw and CRKT are still running assisted actions, companies like WE, Kizer, and Bestech are killing it on the manual action.
 
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