Cheap Folder

I include the following quotes from the Metropolitan Police web site www.met.police.uk re UK knife law. Personally I think if thats what the MET say then its as good as the law unless you want to have to try and argue in front of a judge and risk jail. There was a case recenty of a guy being sent to jail for 6 months carrying a lockback to protect himself after he had been mugged several times on his way home.

...you are not allowed to carry any knife that locks in place. It does not matter how big or small the blade is. You can be arrested for carrying it.

No so long as <person in question> has not got it for his own protection. You can carry a pocket knife which has a blade under 3 inches so long as it does not lock into position. If you are a Scout you could be breaking the law if you wear a Sheath Knife.
 
Originally posted by bladefixation
There was a case recenty of a guy being sent to jail for 6 months carrying a lockback to protect himself after he had been mugged several times on his way home.

Justice prevails once again!

That's why you've got to explain that you intend to bend over, beg and bleed when attacked, and that the 'penknife' is simply for sharpening pencils/cutting thread/opening boxes et al.
 
I can't find the exact case law, but I'm pretty sure its incorporated into S.139 Criminal Justice Act 1988. I tjink it was something to do with the murder of Phillip Lawrence.

I emailed the BKCG about 6 months ago telling them that they were wrong, but they haven't done anything about it.
 
I cant find the exact thing either but it was decided in a case by the judge that a locking knife couldnt be easily and readily closed owing to the lock needing to be disengaged first and therfore didnt constitute a folding knife and didnt fall under the same laws.
 
Thought this may be of interest to you guys. I got this from a fellow UK formite who is also a Police Officer there.
Cheers, Tardis

=================
Bladed items etc:- 139 Offence of having article with blade or point in public place

(1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.

(3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.

(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove4 that he had good reason5 or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.

(5) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection

(4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—

(a) for use at work;

(b) for religious reasons; or

(c) as part of any national costume.

(6) A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable

(a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum or both;

(b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both.


(7) In this section “public place” includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.

(8) This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

[Criminal Justice Act 1988, s 139 as amended by the Offensive Weapons Act 1996, s 3.]

1 Sections 139–142 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 which are printed here came into force on the 29 September 1988. For other provisions of the Criminal Justice Act 1988, see in particular Part I: Magistrates’ Courts, Procedure,

2 Part XI contains ss 133–167.

3 For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process. A lock-knife, which required a further process, namely activating a trigger mechanism to fold the blade back into the handle, was held not to be a folding pocket-knife (Harris v DPP [1993] 1 All ER 562); followed in R v Deegan [1998] Crim LR 562,[1998] 2 Cr App Rep 121. The section applies to articles which have a blade or are sharply pointed, falling into the same broad category as a knife or sharply pointed instrument; it does not apply to a screwdriver just because it has a blade (R v Davis [1998] Crim LR 564).

4 Once the prosecution has discharged the burden of proving the ingredients of the offence against s 139(1), the defendant is guilty unless he can discharge the burden imposed by s 139(4) of the Act; see Godwin v DPP (1993) 96 Cr App Rep 244.

5 The fact that a defendant has forgotten that he has with him an article to which s 139 applies does not constitute a defence of good reason within s 139(4)(DPP v Gregson (1992) 157 JP 201).

6 Interpretation of the ordinay everyday use of “for use at work” is not a matter of law but it is for the justices to decide for themselves what the phrase means in the context of the case.

Therefore possession of a bladed article by an unemployed mechanic to do some repairs on his car that was parked in the road could come within this defence, see R v Manning [1998] Crim LR 198, CA.

7 For procedure in respect of this offence which is triable either way, see the Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980, ss 17A-21, in Part I: Magistrates’ Courts, Procedure, .

8–22681

139A Offence of having article with blade or point (or offensive weapon) on school premises

(1) Any person who has an article to which section 139 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) Any person who has an offensive weapon within the meaning of section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence. (3) It shall be defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article or weapon with him on the premises in question. (4) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (3) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had the article or weapon in question with him— (a) for use at work,

(b) for educational purposes,

(c) for religious reasons, or

(d) as part of any national costume.

(5) A person guilty of an offence—

(a) under subsection (1) above shall be liable1—

(i) on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or a fine, or both;

(b) under subsection (2) above shall be liable—

(i) on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding four years, or a fine, or both.

(6) In this section and section 139B,“school premises” means land used for the purposes of a school excluding any land occupied solely as a dwelling by a person employed at the school; and “school” has the meaning given by section 4 of the Education Act 1996.
 
I do wonder; would it be possible to sue the UK government due to injury caused by using a non-locking blade, since it is the government that have outlawed safety locks?

And countering the judgement that it is possible to use a locking knife for 'work':

If cutting a string from a pair of trousers is legitimate use for a pair of scissors (I assume it is), then surely using a folding pocketknife (with a safety lock) to perform the same task is just as legitimate? Afterall, even a tiny pair of scissors is effectively two higly illegal fixed blades?

:confused:

Just some thoughts going through my 'pissed off at the tyrants in charge' head.
 
as far as I understand it your only chance of carrying something like a locking or fixed blade is if you have a justifiable and immediate need for the item for example if you were hunting you could carry a hunting knife but as soon as you stopped you would need to pack the knife away or you would be breaking the law. that counts for the journey home after hunting too. Or if you were clearing some brush from waste land you could carry a heavy fixed blade but again as soon as you stopped and left the land you would need to pack it away. You cant carry a locking or fixed blade 'just in case' you might need it.

P.S carrying scissors could also be interpreted as carrying an offensive weapon. unlikely if they were just nail scissors i think but if you were walking around with hairdressing scissors or something in your pocket and you werent on your way to/ from cutting someones hair i think you would be asking for trouble.

P.P.S I would love to see someone sue the government for this but as usual there is no chance of it because the average guy like you or me cant afford it and they wouldnt win. even if they did win they would jsut get a few thousand compensation and the government would change the law to make sure no one else could sue.
 
in my experiance and after speaking to one or two LEO friends of mine it would seem that passing the 'attitude test' is far more important than what exactly you are carrying.

many UK police officers carry leatherman 'wave' tools themselves which obviously has a one hand opening locking blade and i know of at least one LEO that carries a kershaw blackout!(even though i've tried to show him the way of the BM :D )...also many many non-knife ppl actually carry pos mini lock knives on keyrings. would they ever be prosecuted for such 'locking' blade items, well unless they are commiting other crimes, generally no.

i regularly carry a bm 555s and will continue to do so. if a LEO ever needs to ask me about it i will be open and honest but most of all calm and POLITE.
 
I'll say this.
In most places it doesnt have alot to do with how polite you are. Since quota's have been emphasised, If a copper needs to meet his target, He'll take you. If he doesnt want the paper work, he won't. If you have a plausable reason for carrying an item, then he'll be fine with it. But these guys know bullshitters, if you dont have a proper reason he wont look kindly upon you.

I think it depends more on where you live and your local bobbies, out here in the country I carry a knife most places, without a specific reason, as soon as I go to a town, it goes in the drawer.

Back in the day we had our local policemen, he'd know us, how small villages work and what people need. Silly boys would get a clip round the ear and Plod would lend you a hand if asked.
Now all the small police force's have combined and we get the same coppers visiting here as the big citys, and they dont seem to be able to change according to the enviroment.

I've met older policemen who are fantastic people, and police the right way, I.E can judge your a nice soul, and deal with situations based on the individual. While, the young PC's come at you regardless of the situation. By the book, with dead eyes, a monotone voice.. and their notebook already out.

Here's an example of our "new breed" of coppers:

Swindon, Wilshire, England
"When Karen McFarlane returned to her car to find two police officers waiting alongside she thought she was about to be ticked off aver the parking ticket she'd just been issued.
But the mother of two was stunned to be told instead that she could face a far graver matter- the presence on the back seat of her son's toy sword.
The officers warned her that she could be charged with carrying an offensive weapon if she did not put the 30" plastic toy in the boot.
The "pirate" sword might cause panic if seen by a passer-by they explained.
Miss McFarlane said 'I can't believe they could be so daft as to think that anyone would seriously think this toy was a real sword. It is just so obviously a child's plastic toy it beggars belief'
The officers waited 45 minutes to warn Miss McFarlane, initially she refused to put the toy in the boot but agreed when threatened with arrest by the WPC and her male colleague".
 
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