"Cheap" steel?

Diomedes Industries

Diomedes Industries

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Mar 19, 2007
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I have watched multiple knife maker hobbyists on Youtube make blanks out of scrap steel. Some from circular saw blades, some from springs, some from things I don't recognize.

This got me to wondering. It seems without the ability to know what steel you have on hand - this may be an awesome way to practice and repurpose things - but it also may be a great way to waste time.

Oddly - my time is valuable to me - so this had me further wondering - what steel is actually "cheap"?

If I have to refurbish a bunch of unknown steel into something that may be workable - is this economical with my money and time? Should I just buy bar stock - know what I have - and then work it?

Without going into a bunch of possibilities (what steel is THIS thing made of?) - what found items would you recommend as surefire ways to save money on steel? Does this sort of suggestion actually exist - or does it always 'depend' on something else?


Is there a type of saw blade, file, or other item that you could advise as being fairly surefire?


TF
 
TF,

I probably should not answer your question with a question but I will anyway. Since you have already said that your time is valuable to you, why would you take a chance on steel of an unknown composition?

It seems to me that knife steels are not expensive compared to the prices of well-made knives made from those steels.

Bill
 
Talfuchre said:
Is there a type of saw blade, file, or other item that you could advise as being fairly surefire?

TF
Click to expand...


Nicholson files are fairly reliable. I can usually get them 2 for a dollar at pawn shops around here. As far as saw blades, if you can pick up a big one, cheap, and have it tested, then it's reliable. For example, if you find a 3 or 4 foot sawmill blade, have it tested and find out it's 8670m, then you have alot of "known" steel, not just "mystery" steel.

All that said, Aldo's 1084 is still just about as cheap as anything.
 
Most people here will tell you if you feel your time is valuable why would you possibly waste it making a knife out of it only to realize you're not sure how to heat treat it because you don't know what it is? For a time consideration bar stock is imo the better option and when you get right down to it, for most of us there's nothing "cheap" about making knives anyway. It's like that old joke, if you want to make a million dollars making knives, start with two million.
 
unless it is a "fun project" to see what you can come up with, I would stick with known steel. Aldo has 1084,1095, and 52100 that cost about $2 for a 8"x1" blank. MDS Tools and Victor Machinery both have "old" new O-1 that would cost about $3 for an 8"x1" blank.
If that is not cheap enough, go to your local machine shop and see what "drops"(left overs from jobs) they have. If you ask, some will let you have the steel for free just to keep it out of there scrap bin.
the old sailor
 
I hope I did not sound crass.

I am just looking for a decent return on time. I see how inexpensive Aldo is. I am always on the lookout for things in junk piles and at flea markets - just wondered what was 'sure fire' for me when doing this.

Scott - I found Victor online and MDS on ebay - but I didn't find their steel section for 'old' new steel. Unless you were using a play on words and I am little slow this morning. ;)


TF
 
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Talfuchre said:
I hope I did not sound crass.

I am just looking for a decent return on time. I see how inexpensive Aldo is. I am always on the lookout for things in junk piles and at flea markets - just wondered what was 'sure fire' for me when doing this.

Scott - I found Victor online and MDS on ebay - but I didn't find their steel section for 'old' new steel. Unless you were using a play on words and I am little slow this morning. ;)


TF
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the O1 steel I have purchased from Victor Machine and MDS was made in Sheffield England by companies that are out of business and have been for a long time. The steel is well packaged and easy to work. So, It is new steel in that is has never been used, old because it has sat on a shelf for years. didnt mean to confuse.
scott
 
Even if you had "free" time on your hands, assuming you end up with an unusable KSO at the end, look at the cost of comsumables that a person has spent money on. Belts, sandpaper, handle material and hardware, fuel, not to mention wear and tear on tools and equipment.
 
I don't think OP is asking "Why not?" I think he is asking "Which?". As in, which items can he look for that would be suitable for blades. If someone were to find a stack of leaf springs or saw blades, and know the steel, "free" would be cheaper than any supplier. Unfortunately its just not that simple. You would have to test what you find, and that in itself might make it cost prohibitive.
 
Leave 01, 52100, and 1095 alone unless you have a HT oven. !080, 1084 you can easily HT yourself with minimal equipment.
 
aarongb said:
I don't think OP is asking "Why not?" I think he is asking "Which?". As in, which items can he look for that would be suitable for blades. If someone were to find a stack of leaf springs or saw blades, and know the steel, "free" would be cheaper than any supplier. Unfortunately its just not that simple. You would have to test what you find, and that in itself might make it cost prohibitive.
Click to expand...

Aaron - that is exactly what I was trying to get at.

If someone said "Oh - all the circular saw blades made by Craftsman prior to 1972 were 1090 and are perfect steel!" - that is what I would look for. I am trying to increase my chances of getting good steel without simply dragging a ton home and hoping I can read the sparks properly.

Thanks,

TF
 
scott.livesey said:
the O1 steel I have purchased from Victor Machine and MDS was made in Sheffield England by companies that are out of business and have been for a long time. The steel is well packaged and easy to work. So, It is new steel in that is has never been used, old because it has sat on a shelf for years. didnt mean to confuse.
scott
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott - I was just confused as to what you meant by "old" new. That clarifies perfectly.

TF
 
Even if you found, say, a 4 ft sawmill blade that you knew for sure to be L6, or something similar...

You still have to process the steel: cut it, drill it, profile it, etc... Unless the steel has been annealed, it's gonna take a lot more work to get the blade where you want it, than it would have had you started out with some Cold Rolled Annealed stock.

When you factor in time and effort (along with actually knowing what steel you have), it's very hard, if not impossible, to beat CRA 10xx series of steels.
 
The least expensive (time wise)steel is probably 1084. You can get it real close to the size you need for the tool you are making. It is relatively easy to shape and the heat treatment is as simple as it gets. All of that will add up to a time savings. Good files will make excellent knives but you should anneal them before shaping (time loss and some $). Carbide precipitation in the pearlite will make them harder to work compared to Aldos spheroidized 1084 (time cost and some $). And the heat treatment is more complex (time cost and some $). 5160 (spring steel) will probably require more time to shape and might suffer from stress fractures due to use. Also the heat treatment for 5160 is a little more complex than 1084. From my reading, the majority of 'knife' steels will be more difficult and therefore take more time than 1084 or similar.
 
Thank you all for your input. I am thinking that until I learn a little more - or have a massive desire make a "found material" knife - that I will hold off - and order 1084 or other steels that I bring to heat treat.

TF
 
No experience is wasted if you learn from it. So 1084 is better... take a file and make a knife out of it. It may be 85% of what a 1084 knife could be, but it'll be 100% yours and better than anything from Walmart. Just do it!
 
Jason. Great name - we share it. ;)

I have just ground my first blade. I am drilling out the Tang today and then sending it off to heat treat (i bought a bar of O1) and plan on making a few more out of 1084 and doing my own heat treat with a small brick forge.

Thanks for the encouragement.

TF
 
I really like known steel. I think your question is are there any absolutes as far a material for a certain tool. There probably was some years ago, but new and cheaper steels are being used for things now. I have heard that new nicholson files are not the same stuff they used to be. On the other hand, I make knives from time to time out of old saws, mostly for sentimental value. When my grandfather died, I found some old saws that he had, they were very old, had the giant teeth with no carbide tips or anything. I have made several knives out of them for family members and a couple for me. I also took some of his files and forged it into damascus for my own personal carry knife. All of them have held up very well, but I probably could have gotten more out of the heat treat if I knew exactly what kind of steel they were.
 
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