Cheap Survival Choice - Folder + Machete vs Tactical

I agree one should avoid any danger by keeping aware and planning. but Disney world is the most fake place on earth. I would rather go hiking and be able to defend my space then go escape in FAKEDOM.

Some of us live in the wilderness or damn near it. So should one move out of the country to avoid wild animals.

As communities expand they are encroaching on wilderness areas and into a preditorial animal's territory. So you might think you are going to a safe place but a preditorial animal is currently there.

Recently with the reintroduction of wolves into the North American heartland. Some have roamed hundreds of miles from the drop off point.

sure the handicapp roadside trails are safe but I love to go deep into the wilderness and yes I might meet up with a wild animal. I am not looking for a face to face confrontation with a cougar or a bear but that comes with the territory.

and finally hunters are often in a preditory animals territory should they not hunt?
 
Baraqyal, the attack occured on what looked to be a very much travelled bike path. How would you suggest avoiding that situation, not riding at all?
 
Hey again. Just read the cat attack thread-mean no disrespect by previous comments.

guess you guys in ca. cant tote pistols as freely as we here in ga.

Sorry to hear about the tragedy, although it sounds as though they were unprepaired at best. After all who wouldve thought a mountain lion wouldve been living in the wilderness through which thier bike trail went.(mild sarcaasm):rolleyes:
 
Something that has been unmentioned about the Kalifornia Mtn. lion attack, must be understood by those who do not live in the People's Kommunist Republik Of Kalifornik.

Once upon a time, there was a hunting season (long) and a healthy balance of the Mountain lion population, and there were no problems. Then, in 1972, the anti-hunting Marxist Socialist planners, along with their oh-so-easily-brainwashed bliss ninny followers, managed to get a moratorium passed in the Legislature, banning cute l'il kitty kat (Mountain lion) hunting until "sometime later."

Almost immediately, the lion population began to explode, and subsequently, the deer population began to take serious hits. Along with that, of course, human population there also was exploding, so there was a steady taking of wild habitat for subdivisions, more shopping centers, more freeways, etc.

In 1994, or was it '95 (?), the greenie PETA Marxist Socialist anti-hunting, anti-gun numbskulls got a statewide initiative on the ballot to ban Mountain lion hunting FOREVER, making it a crime for anyone to kill a Mountain lion. Even though my wife and I voted against the initiative, enough ignorant left wing Bambiites voted for it, so it became LAW.

So, since 1972, until today, there has been nothing but an explosion of lions, and they've decimated the once abundant deer herds, Bighorn sheep herds, and Tule elk calves, have attacked and killed people, and have killed innumerable ranchers' and farmers' domestic animals, and people's pets. And there's nothing that can be done about it, as killing a Mountain lion is AGAINST THE LAW! Kill a Lion: Go To Jail!

Reality is meaningless to the Marxist Socialists who control Kalif. Emotionalism and denial and blaming EVIL humans for all problems, rule in Kalifornia. No way can Gov. Arnold Kennedy rescind that law. It is written in concrete.

I lived in Los Angeles from Jan. of 1962 until Nov., 1997. Nearly 36 years of watching the greatest State in the Union, literally flush down the toilet, was enough for me and my wife.

Idaho is somewhat differrent. I.e., Mountain Lion season here is seven months long, and in some Game Units, you can kill two lions. I and my hunting buddies always carry Mountain lion tags, in season. Going out in the boonies? Strap on your ol' .45 any which way you like. No problem here.

I like it that way.

FWIW. L. W.
 
Well this has sure gotten way off my original subject hasn't it? Or has it?

Choice of blade is always both a survival one AND a tactical one. I'm FAR more likely to be menaced by lowlifes-out-for-a-good-time on the trail than by a big cat or dangerous weather... but who cares? Either way I'm dealing with a big predator/scavenger/weather movement and have to stay safe.

Due to the likelihood of being prosecuted for excessive force in "Kal-ee-foorn-ee-uh" (new proxy Governorator official pronunciation) I have to weigh my safety versus how much I want to avoid jail time. This makes a big impact on my weapon choices on the trail. If it were up to me, I'd just tote my 12 gauge and let the critter 2 legged or 4 take its chances with me. But where would that leave me legally? Waaaaaay out on a limb. Not a good place to be. Baaaaad choice.

Compromises must be made. Until this ill thought out lion law and the ill thought out gun carry laws are changed, what shall we carry that will give us a chance of surviving a run in with louts of the 2 or 4 legged varieties on the trail? Plus have the survival skills necessary for when we just run afoul of Mother Nature?

Annnnnd, how can we do this on a budget approaching zero? It's socio-eco-politico theory hitting the ground running here guys. We are the target. How do we maintain quality of life, have fun and be safe in this wacky new century? Strange that a little thing like knife choice reflects this... isn't it?

Your choices for a politically correct, survive everything including big cats, don't get prosecuted and don't spend much money blade collection for the trail? Curious to hear it!
 
Originally posted by Fred A
Baraqyal, the attack occured on what looked to be a very much travelled bike path. How would you suggest avoiding that situation, not riding at all?
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This was the 6th fatal attack in the last 110 years in California. I agree with Leanwolf completely - this attack was caused by mis-management, poor choice of laws, and loss of habitat. California is reaping the benefits of many years of total ignorance and stupidity.

But, still, it's not like this happens every day. I've spent a lot of time in the wilderness, and I have only seen a wild cat once - and then only from a great distance. Remember, only six fatal attacks in 110 years. I think the evidence strongly shows that mountian lions don't attack humans on a regular basis. This was an unusual event, after an unusual season. I don't think it needs to be a major concern.

Also, remember that a weapon is probably not going to prevent an animal attack - especially when you're ambushed by a mountain lion. I don't think lions encounter many machete wielding hikers, so it's not going to know the difference between you and the next schmoe to walk along.

What I'm saying here is use your head. Go prepared for what you will encounter. If you really think it will be a mountain lion, go armed to the teeth, if it makes you feel better.

But personally, I'd rather take my chances and be better prepared for the real threats: hypothermia, getting lost, going hungry, sunstroke, running out of water, etc.

-- Rob
 
Originally posted by Audiobotica
Your choices for a politically correct, survive everything including big cats, don't get prosecuted and don't spend much money blade collection for the trail? Curious to hear it!
Click to expand...

I would go for a decent folder and a SAK.

California has some pretty decent knife laws, from my understanding, as long as it's a folder. IANAL, though. Check your local laws.

Get the SAK first - they're amazingly useful. I use mine all the time as a bottle opener. :) A lot of people like the victorinox trailmaster (~$27 + shipping from onestopknifeshop.com).

Then, get yourself a good 3"+ one hand opening folder. I would recommend the Spyderco Endura or Native, a Benchmade Griptillian, or any number of other inexpensive, good quality knives. If you're willing to spend a little time looking, you can find killer deals in the For Sale forums here. For about $50, you can get yourself something decent.

The combined weight and size of an Endura and a trailmaster is far, far less than even a small machete, and I think you'll find that it'll be more useful in most short distance hiking/backpacking situations.

You can always get a machete or two later on, if you find that you really need them.

Good luck!

-- Rob
 
Audio:

you don't have your email enabled, can't email ya.

please email me as I live around the angeles national forest area (where you hike, right?) and have the machetes, tomahawks, and SAK you might want without the shipping charges if you want to do a local pick up. I bought these for the same purpose (hiking) but now have no time to do it at all.

horizon_seeker@hotmail.com

MOD: if this is inappropriate, please delete.
 
planning is absolutely necessary and part of being an intelligent human being. some humans are not. but we all must remember that our plans are human(imperfect) and then there is nature.

So to suggest that you can avoid all danger by planning is dangerous advice. There are too many elements to factor even for the most intelligent among us.
 
Where Nature is involved, the best we can do is plan out our gear according to our intended destination and our reason for being there. We can enhance our abilities and gear by knowing the terrain, water sources, food and medicinal sources and knowing what the top predators are and how to avoid them or protect ourselves from them in the event of an encounter. The rest is beyond our control and Murphy is usually working overtime.

If our gear doesn't match the situation or falls short of our expectations, then we have no one but ourselves to blame and as it happens, some of us need to learn the hard way.

The saying that "it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it", is a good way to look at things when putting your gear together. If it weighs an additional 12.9 oz. (the weight of my fixed blade), I'm gonna include it in my gear. If it weighs 12#, I might leave it home.
 
Originally posted by chrisaloia
So to suggest that you can avoid all danger by planning is dangerous advice. There are too many elements to factor even for the most intelligent among us.
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I never suggested that you can avoid all danger by planning. Only a fool would suggest that. Obviously, the world can be a dangerous place.

What I AM suggesting is that you use logic in your equipment choices and don't let irrational fear be your guide.

In backpacking, you can only carry so much weight. I believe that you'll have a better time and be less likely to injure yourself with a light pack. Ounces are best spent on things you'll really need.

There will always be an element of risk.

You should not need a 2lb machete to survive a short trip to the mountains of Southern California.

But, like I've said the entire time, if it makes you more comfortable to haul along a 2lb machete, by all means, do so.

-- Rob
 
Short of an actual survival scenario, the forest service frowns on the hacking of incovenient flora.

So, I think you're better off with a shorter more functional design over a machete with only a few uses.

Throw a good wire saw in your kit. Saves weight and will solve the survival chopping issue. Doesn't scare anyone.

Phil
 
Runsalone:
I dont like wire saws, except in my "ooopps Im in truble kit", but I just recently got one of these "chain saw" wire style saws. It looks like a bycicle chain with teath. Works like a charm. Almost as good as a folding, take apart buck saw, with 1/3 (or less) weight and fits into a small tin about the size of my palm. There a bit expencive (think mine cost $15CDN) but for size/weight and usefullness I give them a +10!
 
Nothing wrong with the Golok and the Supertool. You might also consider the BK9 strapped to your pack and a SAK Trailmaster in your pocket for about $70. Less opportunity to be without...
 
baraqyual,
I hear what you're saying about traveling light but I'll always be the guy travelling with too much steel.
At least according to your school of thought.
Usually I will settle on a fixed blade and a SAK.
Usually don't carry a machete but if I was going to bushwhack I certainly would. Not much more frustrating than trying to clear brush with a short blade.

For those of you who think not seeing a lion means they are not there.
THink again. If you are out there you probably wont see them but they will see you.
Thats why they are still around in an ecosystem which can barely support them. Very efficient hunters.

I live/hike in an area where they live and I have never seen them. But there have been sitings and attacks on the same trails I hike.
I have no doubt that a lion has ocasionally watched me bumble past noisily with much curiosity.
Luckily we are usually not on the menu.
In Cali they have outstripped their food supply and are looking for new stuff to eat.
Lions carry five baldes per paw to drag you into the meat grinder in their mouth. If attacked I want a solid stout balde to at least give me a prayer of taking him with me.

So to the original question definitely a multi-tool or SAK and a short machete to cover the most functions. For me an SAK and a small fixed blade in easy reach, I usually skip the machete.
Do they have an SAK with a foldout .44 mag barrel for the kitties?

For human predators I advocate show no fear walk straight up if can't avoid entirely and offer friendly "Hows it going?" But with a faint touch of the tone that a mugger uses as he checks out a potential victim. For a group focus on the one who might give you trouble.

Id rather hike through a mountain lions happy hunting ground than set foot in DIsneyland. They might eat you but at least they won't rob you.
 
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