Cheapest Most Nessesary Tools Needed to Start?

Iboschi

Iboschi

Joined
Sep 17, 2009
Messages
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I KNOW deep down that this thread has been covered. Despite my best attempts to search it out, I cannot find it. I am hoping you folks will take a moment to help me with the following. I have followed some threads and been lurking a while to find what I need to possibly start making knives as a hobby. I would like to buy the least expensive tools to start. The list I have thus far is:
Metal file
Drill press (details not too important)
Bench grinder 8" variety
Upright belt sander (Not sure what length I need to be able to get up to 2000 grit etc. 42" or a 72", really I have no clue what to get in a belt sander)
If you are so inclined. I would love to know a good online or chain store where I can buy a good belt sander. Harbor freight tools has one, but I'm not sure it meets my demands.

If I've left any materials out, or you need more clarification, please, put me in my place here. If this is covered in a prior thread. Feel free to link it and shut this down. I'm really excited to get started. I just need direction. Thanks for taking the time to help me out!
 
Here's a link to an earlier thread about files, I posted a lengthy answer about using files to make a knife.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=690659

Here's the 2 MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO MAKE A KNIFE!!!!



Desire

Stubborness

With those two items you WILL finish a knife, if you're missing one of those two ingredients then all the tooling in the world won't ever change a piece of steel into a finished blade.

But here's what you need to make a knife:

Mill bastard file ( I use a 14", 12" are pretty easy to get at a local store)
Chainsaw sharpening file to file in the plunge and relieve the shoulders
Rasps will make shaping the wooden handle easier
Lots of sandpaper 80-400x
Epoxy
Drill press or hand drill
Some C clamps
Hacksaw and blades

That's all you need to make a knife. Seriously, THAT'S ALL YOU NEED!

When I reset up my smithy, I'm planning on a WIP of using only hand tools.
 
got to add a way to heat treat or you ll be sending it out

best tool tho is your mind and thinking around problems youb will have and ways to max out the way you use your tools
also known steel goes a long way

maybe a phone to get a hold of a maker in your area
 
Here's the 2 MOST IMPORTANT THINGS TO MAKE A KNIFE!!!!
Desire

Stubborness
Click to expand...
I'll agree! That works for just about anything. If you're motivated, you'll get it done! I really want a decent belt sander to start though. Someone pointed out http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2485 to start, but I can't really find any really fine belts for that size sander. Can anyone recommend a belt sander that I can find some 2000 grit for? If I can get the belt sander locked down, I'd feel much closer to my base tool goal. And, do I need a bench grinder at all? I don't see them used much. Too much heat?
 
Iboschi said:
I'll agree! That works for just about anything. If you're motivated, you'll get it done! I really want a decent belt sander to start though. Someone pointed out http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2485 to start, but I can't really find any really fine belts for that size sander. Can anyone recommend a belt sander that I can find some 2000 grit for? If I can get the belt sander locked down, I'd feel much closer to my base tool goal. And, do I need a bench grinder at all? I don't see them used much. Too much heat?
Click to expand...

I just started the knife making hobby about a year ago. I respect most peoples opinion and hard work and determination are needed. This forum has been a valuable source of information and answers to all my beginer questions.

Having said that, those who use nothing but hand tools to make a knife have a lot more of it than I do. I definately wouldn't have kept at it without a belt grinder. I tried a cheap 1"x42" at first and quickly decided I wanted a 2"x72" and got myself a KMG. The tools have not made me a better knife maker, but they have kept me going. I have not used my bench grinder much at all, I did put a buffing wheel on it to clean and polish things up.
 
This question gets asked once a week, and the same good people respond. They are all the people that helped me one year ago. Get good tools cheap ones are what you get. Nicholson are decent files.
 
This question gets asked once a week, and the same good people respond.
Click to expand...
I kind of figured that. And I thank all those who respond kindly. If another thread adresses this, hit me with it and I'll pipe down.

Now, what is the primary difference between a 2"x72" and a 2"x42" belt sander? I've noticed that 2"x72" grinders SEEM to have more options in the fine grit category. Is that the distinction?
 
I'll see if I can help you out.....I made knives when I was in my mid teens into my early 20's. I made them in the garage at the work bench, but living in PA where we only really have truely warm weather for 3 months of the year, my time was limited. Some early ones I made were pretty bad, but I was a teen with limited tools. I kept working at it and got better. I bought a belt sander, a cheap buffalo forge brand. It litterly fell apart in 3 weeks. So I went and bought a craftsman. All they had at that time was a 4x36. I used to grind my blades on the rounded part. I still have that craftsman belt sander 20 years later and it works great. My dad got me stainless steel from work. I have no idea what grade it was, but it was tough as could be. He worked on the railroad, so it was what they used to make railroad cars. The only hacksaw blades that would cut the stainless was made by "Heller". The stainless would rip up lenox, nicholson, etc. I bought supplies from jantz once I got more advanced. I even used whitetail deer antlers for handles. I used an aluminum rack from a fridge as my pins to hold the handle on. I used just basic files my grandfather gave me. I would then wrap sandpaper around the file and work up to 1000 grit, then polish on a buffing wheel to get a mirror finish. My wood shop teacher in school would give me oak and walnut scraps to use for handles as well. They came out great. The steel was not tempered, but it was hard enough to use it to clean and skin deer. It held a great edge though. For the sheaths, there was a place in town that made safety equipment out of leather and would sell the scraps for $1 a pound. I sold many of them. I made enough to buy several winchester and ruger guns that I still have today..........I used a:
craftsman belt grinder
craftsman vise
6" bench grinder
various files
drill press
lots and lots of sandpaper

So you see, you dont need a world class shop to get into it. See if you like doing it, then upgrade and progress from there. I do more woodworking now than anything and thats an art in itself. I am planning on building a shop this coming summer 16x20. And I am going to have a dedicated metal working bench. Even if I dont get into making knives again, I can make backspacers and such for my sebenzas and other mods. I have included some pics, not bad for someone 16-18 years old working with very limited tools. This knife was made about 16 years ago. Just a little drop point I came up with. I know I did not have the tools of a world class shop, but they worked for me. Patients was my #1 tool.

a8.jpg

a9.jpg

a7.jpg

a3.jpg
 
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look up supergrit.com for belts but i can tell you that over 400 grit on a small grinder is all but useless
to make good use of the higher belts you should have slow speed adn those little grinders dont have that
i made more then a few knives on a 1x42 delta and was happy to find a deal on a kmg with VFD
 
So 2x42" grinders don't have variable speeds, and don't make belts that go above 400 grit?

Very cool knife and good advice, well received Nyefmaker!
 
The issue with belts finer than 400x on a fixed speed grinder is "belt bump" that comes from the joint being thicker than the thickness of the belt+grit. With a variable speed grinder you can slow down the grinder enough to limit this factor.

For someone that's never made a knife you seem very fixated on your final grit finish, you may want to start with a more realistic goal. There's a lot of quality blades that have no more than a 400x finish, a quality 400x finish looks a hell of a lot better than a half-ass 2000x finish. Baby steps, take baby steps. That being said, I know some guys using diamond polish pastes to get 20000x finish.
 
Just want to say... TRUST these guys ! They're giving you sound advice because they've been there done that. Will got me pointed in the right direction with all of my beginner questions and I thank him for that ! I do have a few knives under my belt an just want to add a couple observations.

As a newbie some things are highly unlikely ! Remember that to get a 2000 grit machine finish..... Your grinding must be just about PERFECT ! Especially in grits from 0-120. Just one tiny area with an 80 grit gouge or deep scratch and the dream of the 2000x machine finish is over.

It is possible. But again, unlikley for a newbie. You'll come out way ahead IMHO if you shoot for a 400x machine finish and hand sand from there. If you attain a perfect 400x then hand sanding to 600x is not a big deal and so on...... but one deep scratch and it's all for nothing as you'll be going right back down in grits to remove that 1 scratch.

A slip hand sanding means very little... a slip against a grinding belt running Mach 1 usually means a nice bite out of the spine (or grind line) or a gouge into the edge, and alot more grinding to fix it.

The vast majority of my slip-ups at the grinder have been during the approach up to the belt so concentrate on learning to come up to the belt with a light touch and relaxed. An iron grip on the blade and the edge of the belt will dig a nice divot out of the blade.

Josh

-Josh
 
I never take my blades past 400-600 grit on the grinder. From there I switch to hand sanding.

It's not just the belt size and grits that matter in a grinder. 2x42" grinders are what a lot of people start with. This is because they can be had relatively inexpensively. You can pick one up at Sears. They will produce a servicable knife faster than you can produce by hand (once you figure out how to grind). However, most 2x42" grinders are fixed speed, direct drive, and relatively low horsepower. As you mentioned, your belt options tend to be more limited.

The main benefits of most of the 2x72" grinders is versatility. You can typically choose whatever motor and HP you like (1.5 to 3 hp motors are most popular), and even if you don't go for a full variable speed setup, you can often use step pullies to give yourself speed options. The major players in the knife world (KMG, Coote, Bader, Dozier) also are versatile in their accessories from flat platens to slack belt attachments to small wheel attachments, to 8" wheels, etc, etc. It's also pretty easy to modify them to suit your needs. And any of the major player grinders listed above should last your lifetime and your children's lifetime as well with a little maintenence here and there.

Not only that, but you will find an increased versatility in belts, and your belts will last much longer. Instead of 42" of belt rotating around rapidly, you've got 72" of belt. This means more surface area, relatively less wear, and somewhat less heat buildup.

So with all of these benefits from 2x72" grinders, why do people get the 2x42"? Well, a 2x42" can be had for less than a couple hundred bucks where the 2x72" grinders start at around $600 for the Grizzly and Coote, and move up to $1000+ with the others, and the sky's the limit. My suggestion is to do what I did. Start off with what you can afford and learn to make a quality knife with what you have. Then, after saving and scrimping, you'll be able to make those larger purchases, and you'll be able to increase your quality and efficiency.

Just some things to think about.

--nathan
 
Here is an example of two blades I just got back from heat treat. They were ground down to 120 on the grinder then handsanded to 400. I'm not sure if you can tell in the pictures, but they are very smooth. All I really need to do is clean them up, polish them and grind an edge. The top one is 440C Stainless and the bottom one is D-2.
 
I really want to give a whole hearted "Thank You" to everyone who answered my call. The information you all provided as a collective is proving to be a good foundation upon which I can build. I wasn't sure about a number of basic items, some of which were addressed inadvertently. I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions along the way. Some of which I'll answer myself, and some I'll find here or we'll address together. I feel more surefooted after the virtual "pat on the back" the answers here provided. Armed with a few good tools, I aim to start my first knife next month, after I arrange a few details and get a "starter belt sander". To cut it short, again, I give my warmest regards and appreciation to those who helped me with those "often asked questions".
 
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