Cheapskate interested in waterstone benchstones

T

thombrogan

Joined
Nov 16, 2002
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Could anyone recommend a set of waterstones for someone who wants to learn waterstone sharpening, but has spent too much money on sharpening stuff over the past four years to justify buying the Shapton Pro series?

Many thanks!
 
Get some Norton waterstones. I would go with the double-sided 4000-8000 to save money but buy whole 1000 and 220 stones because the coarse grits wear more quickly. If you don't need the 8000, the 220 and 1000-4000 is a nice set.

Standard size is 8"x3"x1", but you can also find narrower and slightly cheaper 8"x2"x1".

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/sharpening.htm
 
You can also find the Norton waterstones in the local Rocklers.
 
Shaptons coming out with some new stones, based on their pro series, but less expensive.
 
Norton 1000/4000 does it all. The 220 is great for removing nicks and dings, but the 1000 gets the most use. Lee Valley is you best bet. You can also pick up a 8000 ceramic flat stone for about $30 for shaving sharp edges.
 
I have Norton, Smith and Dan's stones. All are very good quality. I use all of them in different combinations based on what blade and what the purpose of that blade is. Its a learning but satisfying experience.
 
The Bester stones are IMHO the best bang for the buck around, unfortunately, I have seen them only in 700, 1000, and 1200 grit. A natural blue stone is very affordable and picks up where the Bester leave of. The finishing stones are always the most expensive. I really like my Naniwa 10000 which is available at www.japanwoodworker for a very good price. The Takenoko also has a pretty good reputation and is among the cheapest (see here: http://japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13118). Personally, I have never been very fond of the King stone. They are not bad, but I had better success with others.
 
Hey HoB,
I know you have a reconstituted blue stone, but did you ever try a natural blue stone? If so, I'm wondering how you think they compare.
Thanx,
Pam
 
Pam,
I tried one several months ago, a very beautiful stone to behold, but like most other natural stones, it cuts pretty slow on the knives I like to use, 58RC and up. The Belgians do seem to cut faster than the Japanese natural stones however.
 
The Norton 4000/8000 combination may work pretty well for you, but it is coarser than you would expect. The 4000 cuts like a 1000 grit of other brands. The 8000 is also coarser than other hones. If you want a stone that will give you fast material removal for the degree of fineness the Norton may be a good choice.

If you want something finer you might try the King 1000/6000 grit combination. It will give you a finer edge than the Norton. Woodcraft sells them. Scroll down this page to find one:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=242
 
yuzuha said:
Hey HoB,
I know you have a reconstituted blue stone, but did you ever try a natural blue stone? If so, I'm wondering how you think they compare.
Thanx,
Pam
Click to expand...

No, Yuzuha, I haven't picked one up yet, I was going mainly by your recommendation. I like the reconstituted more and more, but as I said many times, it is so soft, that it might not be a good place to start for someone who is trying waterstones for the first time. You said, the natural blues are a bit harder, so they might just be the way to go. The price is definitely right.
 
Jeff's right, Norton waterstone grits are not the same as Japanese waterstone grits. It's more helpful to compare the grit sizes in microns:

Norton Waterstones
220 - 65 microns
1000 - 14 microns
4000 - 6 microns
8000 - 3 microns

Compare that with a JIS grit table (thanks yuzuha!) and you can see that the Norton 4000 is comparable to 2000 JIS grit (6.7 microns) and the Norton 8000 is the same size as a 4000 JIS grit (3 microns).
 
Hmm. Sounds like a quandary. With the price of various waterstones, 3 microns sounds like a good end point until I have an idea of what I'm doing.

Thanks again, everyone.

Steeldriver,

Get chance to use your Tetrabor yet?
 
SteelDriver said:
Jeff's right, Norton waterstone grits are not the same as Japanese waterstone grits. It's more helpful to compare the grit sizes in microns:

Norton Waterstones
220 - 65 microns
1000 - 14 microns
4000 - 6 microns
8000 - 3 microns

Compare that with a JIS grit table (thanks yuzuha!) and you can see that the Norton 4000 is comparable to 2000 JIS grit (6.7 microns) and the Norton 8000 is the same size as a 4000 JIS grit (3 microns).
Click to expand...



Steeldriver,
Where did you get the micron sizing for the Norton stones?


--Dave--
 
HoB said:
No, Yuzuha, I haven't picked one up yet, I was going mainly by your recommendation. I like the reconstituted more and more, but as I said many times, it is so soft, that it might not be a good place to start for someone who is trying waterstones for the first time. You said, the natural blues are a bit harder, so they might just be the way to go. The price is definitely right.
Click to expand...

Ah, well, if you do try one please let me know how you like it compared to the one you have. Oh, I finally picked up a Bester 700 but haven't gotten a chance to try it yet, and finally got around to trying a Naniwa 10k super... Now that is a SOFT stone!!! The grit seems to be very well graded and it polishes very well (more inclined to think of it in terms of polishing rather than sharpening, though I did manage to get a nice keen edge on my zdp-189 calypso jr. with it despite a slight gouge.... maybe better treat it more like a hard strop). Totally opposite of the glass hard Shapton 15k (which is also not forgiving of free-hand slop, but will round your edges if you don't keep your angle almost perfect)

Found a new favorite coarse stone : arato kimi PA 220 あらと君 It is the big pink 220 grit aluminum oxide brick sold at epicurian and Japan woodworker. Like all coarse stones, it does wear fast, but it does seem to wear slower than others I've tried, cuts fast and leaves a finish that seems finer than 220 (slurry must break down to like 300 or 400) and the thing is so huge that it should last me a while! :) )
 
D_R_Sharpening said:
Steeldriver,
Where did you get the micron sizing for the Norton stones?


--Dave--
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,
The micron sizes are listed on page two of Norton's catalog.

Steeldriver,
Just a reminder:
The density and type of bond, as well as the tendancy for the grit to break down in the slurry, can affect the cutting speed as well as the finish a stone will produce, so the Norton's may indeed act as if they are finer than their micron size might imply. i.e. the Kitayama 8k producing a polish more like a 12k stone. So, it is entirely possible that a Norton 8k, while having a grit size equivalent to 4k JIS, might actually produce a polish somewhere between a Shapton 5k and 8k, as others have noted. Micron sizes might be more accurate for comparing finishes produced by lapping with diamond dust, or the worst finish you might possibly get out of a stone rather than an absoute measure or estimate of the best finish a stone will produce. (good excuse to buy more stones to try out :) )
 
This is all great info, I have the norton combo stones and they cut great. What about dishing? How are the water stones flattened and how often should it be done? With the edge pro system they suggest using a glass plate and some abrasive. Or a flat area of concrete. Thanks Martin
 
For the Norton's just use some wet/ dry sandpaper, 220 grit for the 1000, 400 grit for the 4000 and 8000. The 220 dishes so fast that all I do to that one is rub in on the concrete floor.
 
Thom, I haven't forgotten about the BC powder! Been real busy lately, but I'll get to it . . . sounds like the rest of you guys like the stuff a lot.

Good point, yuzuha. It's very helpful to have waterstone users like you chime in so we can get a subjective sense of cutting speed and finish, things you can't tell from specs alone :).

louisianacook, is your Norton 220 as thirsty as mine? I can watch the stone suck dry a wetted surface in a matter of seconds! I need to sharpen under a sink, I guess.
 
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