Chef's knife questions

Matt Rochester

Matt Rochester

Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
1,864
I am going to give a chef's knife a try. I'm looking at using 3/32" steel. I would like a 2 inch blade height and 6 inch blade length. I am looking for a good steel that is user friendly since I am just starting out. Up to this point I have only used 440c. I am going to hollow grind it an would like to leave a dark patina on it. I have finished all of my knives to a shine so far. My questions are what type of steel? Is the 3/32" a good thickness? Can I leave the dark finish after heat treat or do indeed to do something else? What kind of steel should I use? I tried searching and could not find what I was looking for so sorry, I'm sure this has been asked before.
 
I did a lot of searching and reading on various forums and looking thru the maker's gallery here. I opted to go with 1095 or O-1 for the kitchen knives I'm making. Those steels perform well and are oil quenched. But if you want something stainless, AEB-L seems popular with the makers.

What does your heat treat setup look like? Are you sending it out, giving it your best shot with a blowtorch, or using a temperature controlled oven? 1084 gets recommended a lot as a beginner steel since the heat treat is more forgiving.
 
I have a local knife maker that heat treats mine in a kiln. I think he quenches in an anti scaling oil. I'm wondering if it's food safe to leave that finish on it? Thanks for the reply.
 
Anti scaling oil? Just for clarification......scale forms because of oxidation during heating. An oil cannot prevent scale from forming. As far as the scale that forms during heat treating, like Don said, no way. Polish the blade up to 600 grit or so.
 
samuraistuart said:
Anti scaling oil? Just for clarification......scale forms because of oxidation during heating. An oil cannot prevent scale from forming. As far as the scale that forms during heat treating, like Don said, no way. Polish the blade up to 600 grit or so.
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Guess that's not it then. Sorry. Is there anything I can do for a dark patina that is food safe?
 
I personal want clean and a matte working finish on my Stainless culinary knives.

440C Hted properly to between 58-60 I shoot for 60RC makes an excellent Chef knife steel.

In my LTHO it may be food safe but is it desirable to you or your customer? Some like the "patina" that carbon steels can form, I call it by its true name, Rust or oxidation. I like Patina on the Statue of Liberty. Not on or in my food!

All that said, people have been eating off of carbon steel and Iron knives for thousands of years without ill effect but keep in mind that many states have laws that you can't use carbon steel knives in any commercial kitchen because they can harbor bacteria especially if the knives are deeply pitted.

O1 would work fine for a Chef knife to answer your original question.
 
You want a 2.4" heel, or more. Round the spine, at least above the heel, and put a nice curve on that knife for a nice rocking motion.
rolf
 
I don't think its possible to hollow grind a 3/32" chef knife, unless your using a 3' diameter wheel. Maybe on a radiused platen, but why?
The reason that culinary knives are flat ground is purely functional.
A flat ground knife can cut through, from edge to spine, with little change in resistance. A hollow ground blade will cut with increased resistance as you approach the spine.
Sticking with the reduced resistance theme, polishing to 600 grit or more will help too.
Any steel that you can get a fine grain structure out of would work great. 52100, W2, AEB-L, would be my choices.
 
Rookie25 said:
Guess that's not it then. Sorry. Is there anything I can do for a dark patina that is food safe?
Click to expand...

With carbon steels (non-stainless steels like 10xx, O-1, etc) you can force a patina by applying various acids. Vinegar, mustard, and regular acids solutions have all been used.
 
I am one of those who likes my carbon steel kitchen knives.
But.....I would not buy one where a patina had already been forced.
I enjoy watching the patina develop as I use my knives on different foods.
If it gets ugly, I scrub the knife with a scotch brite pad and start over again.
 
You hear the same thing about cast iron pans- they harbor bacteria and give off flavors.
What it comes down to is, if you're not inclined to take care of carbon steel knives and cast iron pans, you should use something else.
Stainless is great, I'm currently loving AEB-L- it's so funny that it's the current "HOT STEEL," seeing that it was patented in the 1920s :)
I'm always surprised when customers fight over the one knife on my table that has a forge finish- not so much my style, I like to sand them clean and develop a patina over time, but who's to say what's best?
 
Thanks for all the advice. I haven't done a flat grind but will give it a try. Should I stay with 3/32" if I flat grind?
 
I use 3/32" steel and ALL of my knife are a FFG or a slight convex to the cutting edge.

I am glad Leiflj addressed that. Hollow grinds can work on Boning and other meat knives but are sub-par when it comes to chopping/slicing veggies for the reasons he stated.

The amount of rock in the chef knife is also a personal choice, I like rock, yet, I've had pro chefs order chef knives with no more that a 1/4"-1/2" of rock in a 10" blade.

Look at your favorite Chef knife for a guide of the amount of rock to put in your first Chef knives and then build from there.

Have fun.
 
.....or go take a knife skills class at your local kitchen studio and find out why the good ones are made like they are. I'm glad I did.
 
There's books on that subject as well.
A week ago I got replies sugesting wich one to get.
I'm waiting on it to be delivered
 
Hey Hengelo_77,

Does the book you are talking about cover the design of chefs knives? I'd like to read it. What is the title and who is the author? Thanks.

Tim
 
Is the knife for your personal use or to be given as gift? If its going to be used for anyone other then yourself I would highly recommend stainless steels for kitchen knives because most people dont know how to keep kitchen knives dry. They leave them in the sink or worse put them in the dish washer. 440c as you mentioned is a nice choice and 3/32" is fine but I use 1/16" for chef knives.
 
tim37a said:
Hey Hengelo_77,

Does the book you are talking about cover the design of chefs knives? I'd like to read it. What is the title and who is the author? Thanks.

Tim
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Tim,
Most of these books cover the different cuts, chopping Peeling etc and will give some recommendations for what to buy from high quality knives. Now the question is Western or Japanese style knives?

Here is one on western that I found on ebay for under 5 bucks with shipping so you will gain insight about the cuts each knife needs to make and you will then have a better personal understanding of what each culinary knife is expected to do.

"The Professional Chef's Knife Kit"

So spend a little money and read up on the subject.
 
AEB-L works great if you want to go with stainless.
 
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