Chef's Knife - Should I go Custom?

[Gator97]

Greatly appreciate all the responses, I am still looking so please toss in any ideas. I am still in the 100-150 range, and now looking more into 6-8" santokus, ut dont know what size is really ideal?

For starters, santokus are hardly ideal for general purpose kitchen knife. They're limited in length, 7" is pretty much the max. Of course, there's a lot of people who sear by their santokus, but you won't see one in pro kitchen, and most of the experienced folk prefer gyutos or chef's knives, or alternatively, chineve vegetable cleavers, a.k.a. chukabochos.

Anyway, if you want santoku, ideal length is up to you. Whatever makes you feel comfy. Same goes for chef's knives.

For your price range, I'd check chefknivestogo.com, Takedas with their Aogami super steel are slightly out of your budget, but Watanabe basic line with white steel, kuro uchi finish is well within, e.g. this santoku - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/wakusa16.html
Besides, you can always email Watanabe and he's very good with cimmunication and most likely you can work things out. I have bunch of customized Watanabe knives, he was always very forthcoming.

 

[mano I]

A custom knife is completely unnecessary as there are many excellent Japanese knives available in your price range. A gyuto is the Japanese version of the western chef's knife and uses a western handle. The santuko is popular but less useful.

I recently purchased the 240 mm CarboNext gyuto here: http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KAGAYAKICarboNextSeries.html

It's primarily a high carbon steel but won't rust but may stain as mine did a bit. My guess is over time it'll develop a patina my stainless Wusthoff hasn't and never will after 12+ years. The CarboNext takes and holds an excellent edge. I have an assortment of stainless Wusthof's and high carbon Sabatier's that stain quickly but after 25 years are still great knives that prove high carbon is a superb metal for knife making.

It seems technology is giving us cooks the best of carbon and other metals that limit the problems high carbon has while maintaining the benefits.

If the CarboNext isn't in stock email Koki, the owner. Also the guy at chefsknivestogo.com is terrific. He'll guide you to the best knife for you rather than trying to upsell you.

Good luck, be patient and let everyone know what you decide to get.

 

[mano I]

repost, mods please delete

 

[Gator97]

A custom knife is completely unnecessary as there are many excellent Japanese knives available in your price range.

I'd disagree. Many custom makers make excellent knives which are lower or comparably priced than factory ones.

A gyuto is the Japanese version of the western chef's knife and uses a western handle.

Not necessarily, in fact most of the gyutos have Japanese style handle.

 

[mano I]

I'd disagree. Many custom makers make excellent knives which are lower or comparably priced than factory ones.


Not necessarily, in fact most of the gyutos have Japanese style handle.

I'm speaking about the $100 - $150 range the OP mentioned. Please reference web sites for those custom makers, I'd love to see them. Almost by definition custom makers incur higher costs per knife than production knives made by reputable makers found here:

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/products.html

and here:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitchen-knives.html

If we're using the same definition of custom, it means a one-off knife made to certain buyer specifications. Nothing pre-fabricated. Metal, type, handle and blade angles and sharpness are made to order and are all great quality. IMHO that's a pretty tall order even if we're talking about semi-custom knives done in small batches where the maker makes most all components themselves and assembles them either to order or just stays with the small batch.

The wa-gyuto has a Japanese handle. I don't know if most gyutos are wa, but in my search most had western handles at least at places selling knives to buyers here in the USA. Maybe it's not a fair sampling, but of the 80+ gyutos on the chefsknives to go web page only 23 are wa's. At Korin only 1 of 20 and at japanese chefs knives most of what they sell have western handles.

I suppose in the Asian countries most everyone uses wa handles.

Oh, and for the OP, stay away from any knife that claims to "do it all...slice through chicken bones and then keep it's edge for slicing through tomatoes." A good gyuto is not meant to go through bones or very hard foods such as frozen meats. Use a cleaver or your German chefs for that.

 

[omniviking]

I found a couple at yard sales, an old 8 inch Chicago 1940's -50's great shape, carbon steel, shaped more like an Asian style chef's knife, it will slice sushi, that stuff is dense and sticky $7, not for sale,,, MINE forever.

Also found a stainless Japan made 10 inch chef's knife, for stainless hold an edge well, about like cooking with a short sword. another good snag. keep on looking. $4

I don't have cable or dish TV and watch a lot of pbs, On the Test Kitchens show the didn't much care for forged knives with big old heels that you can't sharpen. Their choice with no budget was over $200, but on a budget they like a Victorinox in the $20-30 range.

Nothing wrong nice top production or custom, but there are moderate choices that preform well.

Besides some of the old stuff is groovey

 

[stevenkelby]

1 day left to get in on this but it may be outside your budget, I have a few of these from Dave, outstanding work. Not a custom blade, carbon clad in stainless, and you pay a bit for the reprofiling/rehande, but they are well worth it, imo:

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/890767/

Gallery here, lots more pics in his forum:

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/887352/

Otherwise for a non custom and low budget you can't go past an all carbon Misono IMO:

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/miswst.html

 

[Jameson]

Thanks so much all, I am narrowing it down.

I see a great set of MAC santoku/paring knife for $95 or close. and the Santoku alone is around $65 so to me that seems like a great start/deal to say the least. HOWEVER, I want to get something that is gonna fit all of my needs that I orignally mentioned, and the MISONO knives (santoku and chefs) really intrigue me now that I have taken a look.

Any other experience with these MISONO knives? Well balanced?

Also have looked on the Japanse Chefs knives site and see lots of stuff that I like but the site confuses me a bit. have you folks had good experiences with shipping from them (prices/timing)? thanks in advance for the help. Just looking to spend wisely...

I would go with the SHUN for all my purposes, but it seems like I am paying for the name, however I do like the hard steel with the pattern of sandwhich stainless over it, which i cant seem to find in the japanesechefknives site. I do like the layout of chefknivestogo.com and probably will end up looking there for my purchase. I would much rather a forged knife for any money than a stamped out piece of sheet metal.

Are MAC Superior line really a quality piece for the money? Or just a more expensive handled/marketed vicotrinox fibrox handled blade in the $25-30 range? I would really rather stay away from sabatier/wusthof/henckels german/euro knives as I HAVE a full set and various singles, and really want to go the direction of non-stainless/HARD/edge retaining steel.

I can sharpen well, but just DO NOT have the time to put in anymore for an edge I like. Would much rather send them in the mail to a SUPER PRO wherever I can find one, and just steel and touch up myself throughout the year.

Does it not make sense for me to spend in the range I am talking to buy a real nice piece that is going to last. I already have the 50-100 range pieces that CUT, but arent where I really want to be.

I really don't want to come off snobby, but I lost interest in knives (pocket folders) after I had a tone of microtech and benchmade stuff (20-25 knives) I bought a SMALL SEBENZA plain, and haven't bought a pocket folder since then, probably 8 years ago or more. I really hadn't even bought a knife until a week ago getting a new $40 henckels 8" chefs, which I gave to my Pops!

Anyway, thanks again for guiding me through this, your time put in to responding is greatly appreciated. Those MISONO's look really nice! and the price is reasonable, might be time to pull the trigger! It was my bithday yesterday and needless to say, I didnt get the SHUN I was hoping for.....!

JC

 

[Gator97]

I'm speaking about the $100 - $150 range the OP mentioned. Please reference web sites for those custom makers, I'd love to see them.

Watanabe basic line - e.g. http://www.watanabeblade.com/english/standard/kaibou.htm

Moritaka basic - http://www.moritakahamono.com/en/hocyo1-1.html

And yes, I do know both vendors you listed(JCK & CKTG) personally, and bought quite a few knives from both of them, so am well aware of general price ranges on both production and custom knives.

If we're using the same definition of custom

I don't want to argue that point, there were numerous threads on BF what exactly is a custom, with no consensus in the end. And the way you just defined that excludes 90% of the custom(by other definition) knives. So, if that's your definition, so be it, then my comments and references do not apply.

 

[Gator97]

Also have looked on the Japanse Chefs knives site and see lots of stuff that I like but the site confuses me a bit. have you folks had good experiences with shipping from them (prices/timing)?

I do, multiple times. Koki, the owner of the japanesechefsknife.com is very helpful, always answered all the questions, and I did ask a lot more than average buyer, delivers on time, shipping is very fast as usual, if something is not in stock you will either see on the site, or he'll let you know..

I would go with the SHUN for all my purposes, but it seems like I am paying for the name, however I do like the hard steel with the pattern of sandwhich stainless over it, which i cant seem to find in the japanesechefknives site.

There are plenty of knives of that type(warikomi), on JKC as well.
Hattori HD - http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HDSeries.html
Kantesugu SAIUN - http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SaiunDamascusSeries.html
Hiromoto damascus - http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/TenmiJyurakuDamascusSeries.html

All of them feature VG-10 steel, same as shun classic line, about at the same hardness, and clad with pattern damascus.

There's also Tojiro flash series, exactly the same thing, except VG-10 is hardened to 62HRC, arguably good or bad, depends on the user.

There's also Henckels Miyabi Morimoto D series, again, damascus clad VG-10, although that one is exclusively from SLT, but price is very reasonable, same as Shuns actually.

chefknivestogo.com is also, very reputable, helpful and reliable, in my experience and I haven't heard otherwise.

Are MAC Superior line really a quality piece for the money

Quality is fine for the price. They keep the steel secret, doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. I had another mac, from original line, can't say it performed better than VG-10 steel, rather worse. Not

Would much rather send them in the mail to a SUPER PRO wherever I can find one, and just steel and touch up myself throughout the year.

Dave Martell - http://www.japaneseknifesharpening.com/

 

[mano I]

Gator, thanks for the links. I don't see gyuto's but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Seems like both are small shops that take a lot of pride in their knives. Having no experience with wa handles I'd like to try them out. Also, do the knives on their sites have single bevels or double? The Watanabe picture show how dirty a job knife making is.

I agree, Koki is great. The CarboNext is a fantastic knife especially for the price. It was only through some research I learned he'd include a wooden saya for $20 (I think) but you have to tell him as it's not offered on the web site. The saya is nothing fancy but I'm really glad I got it. He got the knife to me on the east coast from Japan in 5 days.

Highly recommended.

 

[Gator97]

Gator, thanks for the links. I don't see gyuto's but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

You are welcome You can email them and they will give exact quote. To me, based on my experience at least, one of the key factors is Shirogami or Aogami steel used by them at very affordable prices. Both work noticeably better compared to VG-10 used in comparably priced or even more expensive factory knives. Yes, there is kuro uchi finish vs. fancy damascus pattern cladding, but that doesn't affect performance.

Having no experience with wa handles I'd like to try them out. Also, do the knives on their sites have single bevels or double?

I started with western handles, obviously, but now, most of the time I now prefer WA handles on kitchen knives. That's just me though. As for the bevels, some are single, others double, but most of the time you can ask for specific type.

I agree, Koki is great. The CarboNext is a fantastic knife especially for the price.

So far I only see positive feedback and Koki is very positive about it(CarboNext) too. I'm not too happy that they keep the steel formula secret, but at least this time it's a good steel.

 

[mano I]

Supposedly the CarboNext is a rebranded Kikuichi TKC 240mm Gyuto
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/ic24gy.html

When I was looking to buy a gyuto it was on most everyone's short list even though my budget was $250+.

Something most first time J knife buyers forget is the waterstones, which run $100 +/- for a basic set. I bought Shapton glass stones which should last a lifetime for me as a home cook.

 

[ArchieFunker]

I was just looking to purchase a decent chef's knife for myself, and figured I had better handle a few before I bought one. After work last night I stopped in at Williams Sonoma to check out some of the different brands and lines and came across the new Henckels Cronidur knives, they are super light in the hand and the fit and finish is really good. However the Cronidur 30 steel is new to me and it would be nice to know how this steel performs compared to one I am familiar with, such as VG-10.

Unfortunately the price is nearly double of what you wanted to spend, but you should definitely check them out.

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/prod...-hollow-ground-santoku-knife/?pkey=ccutzwlcrn

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/zwilling-j-a-henckels-cronidur-chefs-knife/?pkey=ccutzwlcrn

On a side note, does anyone have any experience with the Al Mar All Stainless Damascus knives?

 

[chef_trooper]

I have a carbon sujihiki within this model group. It's not "Pure Custom" but they make a carbon santoku in your price range, and the steel takes and keeps and edge extremely well. I use my slicer for primal trimming and sometimes for fish work. They develop a nice patina with normal use. Let us know what you picked out after your research!

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

 

[wnease]

The upper end of your price range will cover a handmade knife in that size, maybe not a beautiful hand-rubbed finish but it'll do, especially in dirt cheap steel... funny a sebenza owner wants a cheap carbon handmade though

 

[Jameson]

I bought the sebenza because I wanted the One piece frame/locking system I have an older benchmade with this design "mono-lock" type, since I had a folder close on my hand once, luckily still have my digits.... Learned my lesson.

The blade steel s-30v and the fit/finish were secondary. However, the fact that the knife has NO blade play at all, and the lock gets stronger the tighter you grip it (righty) is really what prevented me from moving on to a different piece at all.

As far as a Japanese knife, I got a dojo for valentines day, and so far am very happy with it. Still plan on getting some more goodies.



JC