Chinese Folder Question?

I have a Dozier fixed blade with red (burgundy) micarta scales in my hands at this very moment and was happy to read about Sals thought on this color material. I feel this would make a great choice. Appropriate and customarily a good luck color for the Chinese!

Clay: by all means a good blasted texture gets my vote.

Sal: checkering, hmmmm?
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L8r,
Nakano

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"To earn a million is easy, a real friend is not."
 
FWIW, I would pay the extra for a Ti handle. I wouldn't buy the knife at all in aluminum or zytel. Micarta - ehh. Burgundy sounds nice - not nearly as nice as Ti, but nice. Steel would be nice looking, but heavy.

The constant delays on this knife have been made, ostensibly, because of quality control, and a desire to release a special product. Why is there such a need to end this devotion at the Ti handle, just because it raises the price by a margin commeasurate with it's superiority in weight, strength, and appearance?

There are plenty of bargain (OK - lightweight) knives around that compromise in various areas to fit the needs of people unwilling to part with premium coin for a premium knife. I will be sorely disappointed, after this long wait, to see the Lum become a mid-range piece rather than a premium issue.
 
While I can't stand to see a special "custom collaboration" knife in as lowly a material Zytel, I disagree with your reasoning on the Ti. Spyderco already has Lum's tanto design as a "high-end" piece with Ti handles, so why not let this piece be more mid-range? I like the burgundy micarta suggestion a LOT. I apologize if I'm mistaken, but we are discussing a second Lum design in the mode of his custom utility folders, right? Let the flashy tanto be the high-end piece and keep the utility knife at a more utilitarian price, in micarta or aluminum (but not Zytel!)

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
One more thing to add...not everyone has $200 to spend on a knife like this. Even if you do, you have to consider the using potential for this knife. Trust me when I say the size and shape of this bugger BEGS you to abuse it! You can literally use it for anything from ho-hum utility work (boxes, etc), to gardening where it performs very well, to probably dressing an animal in the field. This is a knife you will want to abuse, trust me, and as a result, you will want a tough handle. I have a Buck Ti XL and I know that it is pretty overbuilt, but the Ti is slippery and heavy, even when compared to a folder with steel liners. While titanium has its own chi-chi factor (God, don't I know that after being in the bike industry for a few years!), it just doesn't make sense to be used on this knife. Also, the Ti handles are easier to bang up than one would think. My Buck, which has had light use, looks like a remnant of WWIII! The beauty of the Micarta scales is twofold: 1) It is easy to buff out
scrtaches, and dings are easily hidden as well.
2) If they are attached via screws of some sort, they can be replaced if damage/wear is big-time, and for people who lieka change of pace, replacement scales in different colors/materials could be offered. What would be greater than a knife that you could switch from black Linen Micarta to red, then to green G-10, etc if you wanted to? The hardest part in making the scales at home, even, would be the step-drilling aspect just because it requires a special bit.
Steve
 
Sorry - I thought this was for the first model. I was unaware that it had been released and had already spawned a subsidary line! ;-)


As a "second line", the burgundy micarta would definitely be my choice of the materials discussed. I also don't see where this knife would not look good in tactical, textured and contoured G-10, ala the Wegner.

Going the other way, a white pearl inlay in a stainless frame keeps popping up in my mind's eye...
 
FRN in colors would be great for a "Using" knife! An RL would be even nicer. I would pay for a Ti scaled special occasion knife...
 
Burgundy Micarta !?!?! Yes! If the micarta stability problems are not too great, that would be beautiful. It definitely rings my bell. I don't know what price range you have in mind, but I would definitely be interested in something like this if it were not too much more expensive (or at least not too unreasonably so
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) than what I am assuming are comparable collaborations like the Centofante, Viele, JSK, Wegner, etc.


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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
 
Brian,

Have a look <a href="http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000413.html">here</a> for some scans of Bob Lum's custom Chinese Folder. It'll give you some idea what all the fuss is about
smile.gif
. For me, this is a must have no matter what the final coniguration is or how long it takes.

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Take care,
Clay

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance." Anonymous


 
Gotcha.

This one is also a beauty! Awesome flow! Exceptional design on that clip!

I'm back to square one. I'd pay for it in Ti, and have no qualms about using it. I'd also like to see it with ironwood or snakewood (Yeah, baby, yeah!), and even more than before, a nice, generous pearl inlay (mosaic?) in a stainless or Ti frame.

I would sooner pay for any of these upgrades than ever purchase a plastic (any kind) or aluminum model, and I would definitely carry and use this knife, in any of these configurations.

As for the masses, let them eat cake - with a spork! :-)
 
Lot of great input, thanx much. keep it comin'. Danelle, please be sure to print this thread out for Michelle, Susan and I when it is finished. thanx.

Please try to also keep in mind that as the recipient, you are more aware of your personal desires. Let's face it, you are not average. The forum group are definitely aficianados. As a manufacturer, we also have to keep the "general Market" in mind as well. Anything over $100 rarely gets "General Market" purchase. At that level, you are into collectors. Although there are many collectors, most choose their colection pieces by appearance. The Spyderco "Round Hole" does not seem to atract as many collectors as other "sleeker" designs. Are there enougn collectors to support a ti and micart version as well as a FRN version for the general market. I'd love to know up front! But we never do. Got to jump into the water to find out the temperature. We know that for sure, the model is scheduled for Y2K delivery in at least one size.

First run cannot be FRN as the "Glitches" have to be worked out in time before beginning a FRN model. Thanx again for the input.
sal

 
That's why I don't care for a custom collaboration in FRN - the collaborations are frequently "sleek" or at least "oddball" designs that appeal to collectors but may have less general appeal. That and the "elite" staus of having a custom maker's name on the knife means to me that these knives are rarely suited to (or done justice by) FRN handles.

I can see how the liteweight Goddard works out, because Mr. Goddard has made such a down-to-earth design, but I think it's the exception that proves the rule. The Horn and the Walker, IMO, make very strange liteweights, and I cannot even imagine a liteweight Shabaria (I will get the maker's name remebered before it is released!) or Khalsa. This Lum design is another oddball, very functional when considered properly and with great lines, but very strange to the uninitiated eye. I doubt it would do well as a liteweight.

If I had my druthers, we'd never see another Zytel knife bearing a maker's name. Spyderco has designed plenty of great utilitarian knives in-house. The custom collaborations should be a chance to do something a little wilder, and a little more upscale. Just my $0.02.

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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
What about offering different versions, Zytel for a lower price, aluminum mid range and Ti, Micarta for higher end. A variety of colors would be nice. I am sure there would be added costs, but I think it would enhance the an already excellent line.
 
I like Steve's idea of exchangeable scales (exchangeable for the ELU).
You can find that concept on the james brothers cheyenne.
This should solve the problem. If the frame is made of ti you can add ti-scales and get a ti handled knife. The other options can range from micarta (burgundy) to various colors of G-10. I don't know if it is possible to make scales of FRN.
So there would be one basic model and a choice of (cnc-made)scales. Pricewise there should be an option for everyone. At least I hope so.
Greetings
red
 
As far as the frame goes, I'd prefer to see it in stainless steel. It is more durable than Ti, especially if it is to be a Liner Lock. In any case, look at the popularity of a knife as cheap as the CRK&T Mirage with Zytel handles. Half the people who buy them are simply doing so because it is easy to remove the Zytel scales and replace them with ones of any other material. You could even market the Lum design as a modular knife, which is sold as a frame alone, then the purchaser has a choice of scale materials/colors for an additional fee. That way the high-end guys who are fixated on Ti for whatever reason can have it, while other who prefer a knife with class (;-) can choose a nice tan or maroon Micarta. Of course, this would probably never happen as this would add such complexity to the darn thing, but it is an idea. I suppose you could choose to do the knife in a mid-range material, then for people who want a high-end option, simply offer Ti scales as an upgrade.
As far as Sal's point of us being "aficianado's", I think it is something to definitely consider. As I sit here looking at my fixed blade version of this knife, I could see how it would be unappealing to an amateur buyer. Even with mosaic pins, a file-worked spine, canvas Micarta handle scales, and an etching in Chinese that reads "Chinese Utility" (clever, eh?), this knife still looks like something you could pick up in the gardening section of any hardware store! This knife was made to be a utility worker, and as such, you can do whatever you want to the handles and what not, but it still won't change the pedigree of this knife whatsoever!
That said, it probably is the most versatile fixed blade I own, with a perfect size (slightly under 4" cutting edge, almost a 5" handle, and an 8" OAL...I'm not sure what the real deal's dimensions are). People who know knives will be attracted to the knife, but it will have limited appeal to the masses, I suspect. Maybe I'm wrong, though! Wouldn't be the first time, certainly. It's not as oddball as the Khalsa, for sure, but it is a rather mundane knife that is only fully appreciated once it is held and used.
Steve
 
Personally, I would like to see this knife in Ti, or clear anodized Al. The coating on my Benchmade Leopard Cub has held up well, even after clanking around with the loose change in my pocket. I would buy the small version with burgundy micarta scales too. As someone else mentioned, I think custom collaborations should have a "special" look to them and wouldn't like to see this knife in FRN. Then again, I'm just a purchaser and I don't have to worry about production costs or profits from this project (thankfully). Sal, have you asked Bob Lum of his opinion on this?

Alan
 
Alan - Bob has always made them in ti. I thought I'd get some additional input from potential ELU before bringing to Bob.
sal
 
Sal,

I have seen a small one (31/8" blade) advertised at Arizona Custom Knives with black linen micarta scales. That's another reason I like the idea of burgundy micarta scales for the collaboration, more in keeping with the custom version than aluminium. Price is also a major consideration for me, since our exchange rate adds at least another 50% to the US price even if I buy from a net dealer. Titanium might put it out of my reach, unless I can get my children to find jobs
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.

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Take care,
Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow....in Australia it's tomorrow already.

 
Good Day,

I think that as an eventuality, FRN is very good. I recently purchased the Horn Ltwt, and my sister loves it, and I just bought a Goddard Ltwt, and I love it.

Maybe we could do a limited run of the Chinese in Ti, but if not a really classy interpretation of G-10 or Micarta would be good. The market likes utilitarian black, it fits into the tactical/practical thing.

Sal, thank you for bringing this design to the common man, I am going to buy one, period.

MDP
 
The really cool thing about FRN is the option of adding a reversible clip to the package.

And a Right hand Rolling Lock can be actuated with the fingers on the bottom, making the knife left capable.

MDP
 
As a matter of interest there is a small Bob Lum Chinese Folder with dull green G10 scales currently for sale at <a href="http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/Lum_test.htm">Arizona Custom Knives</a>.

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Take care,
Clay

Don't worry that the world might end tomorrow....in Australia it's tomorrow already.

 
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