I understand that a chiruwa is full tang. However, the only knife I see referred to as that is an AK. I think the M-43 is full tang, is it referred to as a chiruwa also? I think I saw tow other models with full tang and they weren't referred to as chiruwa either. How many different models have a full tang, and what are they? I did search for this but only got bits and pieces but no definitive answer. Thanks
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Chiruwa or not?
- Thread starter vcbvcbvcb
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Virtually all of HI knives are full tang (the exceptions have some carved handles, like an eagle or monkey head, and the tang doesn't extend the full lenght of the handle.) "Full tang" meaning the tang is part of the same piece of steel that made the blade, and it runs the full length of the handle.
The "chiruwa" models are easy to spot, because they have some rivets showing on each side of the handle, like the M-43 for example.
The "chiruwa" models are easy to spot, because they have some rivets showing on each side of the handle, like the M-43 for example.
This has been so far what's kept me from ordering direct from HI websight, I've bought into the " if it ain't full tang its trash " school of thinking, and while I know this isn't exactly true....I still can't get over the WANT to have full tang knives....
The pictures are so.... well.... I can't tell which have full tang and which do not.... so I wait....and not buy for fear of getting something I'll be scared to use without breaking the handles off of....
is there a definitive list somewhere? or some way to sort blades by " full tang " on their websight that I'm not seeing?....I've given up on trying to catch what I want on DOD....I'm just not quick enough to catch em when they are posted before others claim seconds or even thirds on em....
I REALLY want to help support these guys, but atm...they ain't making it easy...
The pictures are so.... well.... I can't tell which have full tang and which do not.... so I wait....and not buy for fear of getting something I'll be scared to use without breaking the handles off of....
is there a definitive list somewhere? or some way to sort blades by " full tang " on their websight that I'm not seeing?....I've given up on trying to catch what I want on DOD....I'm just not quick enough to catch em when they are posted before others claim seconds or even thirds on em....
I REALLY want to help support these guys, but atm...they ain't making it easy...
The knives HI makes are either the classic full-tang (this meaning the metal under the slabs, although tapering, it runs along the whole section of the slabs) or what we call here sometimes "kangaroo-tail tang" (because "rat-tail" doesn't quite do it justice). The last one also runs along the full length of the handle and it is peened at the end.
As for why some knives have the "chiruwa" mentioned explicitly...let's put it this way: there never ever was an M43 that wasn't full tang in the classic sense. This is how the British wanted it, so, since there is no "non-chiruwa" M43...no need to explicitly mention it.
Nowadays, I would prefer the non-chiruwa for most applications, because if the slabs eventually shrink they won't leave a protruding tang out to upset your hands, so no need to take a file to it, then smooth it out and recoat with whatever oil you fancy abundantly.
As for why some knives have the "chiruwa" mentioned explicitly...let's put it this way: there never ever was an M43 that wasn't full tang in the classic sense. This is how the British wanted it, so, since there is no "non-chiruwa" M43...no need to explicitly mention it.
Nowadays, I would prefer the non-chiruwa for most applications, because if the slabs eventually shrink they won't leave a protruding tang out to upset your hands, so no need to take a file to it, then smooth it out and recoat with whatever oil you fancy abundantly.
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To clarify what the guys above are saying, HI knives are usually one of two tang styles. The traditional style is called rat-tail tang, where the tang thins down at the beginning of the handle, and tapers as it reaches the bottom. The end of the tang pokes through the handle material, and then a butt cap is secured with laha and some good peening of the tang. Think like a Ka-Bar design. The other handle style is the Chiruwa style. This style is what we westerners are used to calling "full-tang," in that the tang extends both the full length and WIDTH of the handle. Do not be confused though, both the Chiruwa and traditional rat-tail tang extend the full length of the handle, and are therefore full tang as opposed to partial tang, which definitely are not recommended.
There is a key difference performance-wise though. A Chiruwa model of the same length as a traditional will be heavier, and/or have its center of mass closer to the handle. To me, that is directly negating much of the design and original intention of the blade. The full wood handles also absorb shock, which is yet another benefit.
When in doubt, think of it this way: the rat-tail tang has been used on this kind of knife for a few hundred years now. If it was not an effective design, it would most certainly have been changed by now. The fact that HI makes knives with the Chiruwa handle is, in my opinion, only because it appeals to us westerners.
Now to answer your question in short, pins/rivets means Chiruwa style, no pins means traditional rat-tail. And the knives with the carved ends that I've seen have Chiruwa handles, the tang just doesn't extend the last little bit. Those are more like a "full-tang" knife with an extended handle as opposed to a partial-tang.
As Bookie said, buy any model with confidence. Even the blems are tougher than most any production knife on the market.
There is a key difference performance-wise though. A Chiruwa model of the same length as a traditional will be heavier, and/or have its center of mass closer to the handle. To me, that is directly negating much of the design and original intention of the blade. The full wood handles also absorb shock, which is yet another benefit.
When in doubt, think of it this way: the rat-tail tang has been used on this kind of knife for a few hundred years now. If it was not an effective design, it would most certainly have been changed by now. The fact that HI makes knives with the Chiruwa handle is, in my opinion, only because it appeals to us westerners.
Now to answer your question in short, pins/rivets means Chiruwa style, no pins means traditional rat-tail. And the knives with the carved ends that I've seen have Chiruwa handles, the tang just doesn't extend the last little bit. Those are more like a "full-tang" knife with an extended handle as opposed to a partial-tang.
As Bookie said, buy any model with confidence. Even the blems are tougher than most any production knife on the market.
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Actually they aren't considered "full tang". The full tang models are the chirwa models with pins showing. The other style is rat tail construction... although I consider it a "stump tang" more than a rat tail tang. That being said I prefer standard rat tail over full tang due to their balance. HI is a split pretty much 50/50 on chirwa and standard tang availability.
All HI "full tangs" will have pins showing. No pins means no full tang... Just a little nubby that sticks out the pommel. IF there are no tang pins to secure it so it isn't considered "full tang" in most if not all knife circles.
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The Himalayan Imports FAQ page contradicts your definition, so it's not just me and Bookie who consider these full length, thick, integral (not welded on) tangs to be "full tangs".
Tang - the (unsharpened) section of the blade that extends rearward and is contained within the knife handle, which may be secured by pins drive through the handle (perpendicular to the edge of the blade) or may be extended out the butt of the handle and secured with a keeper and buttcap (known as 'full-tang'), or may simply be secured within the handle with some sort of epoxy, glue, etc.
http://www.himalayan-imports.com/Construction.html
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Rat tang to me is the tang which thins and doesn't even reach the bottom.
Not even mystical Katanas have full length "rat" tangs or full width chiruwa tangs. So both should be more than adequate.
Anyways. I have both versions from HI and don't feel a difference in performance. How much weight difference can there really be anyways? Chiruwa is often tapered and on top of that part of the increase in metal is offset by the use of less wood.
Vibrations and dampening impacts of non chiruwa blades? Not that I noticed and I bet my hand meat will absorb much more and what kind of handle it is shouldn't matter especially if you hold the Kukri not with a tight monkey fist but more losely.
Also if impact on the handle is reduced same would happen on the edge and this reduce effectiveness the same way fatigue would supposedly be reduced.
All HIs are perfectly balanced maybe they just add a few more ounces to the blade if the handle contains more metal or do some other balancing magic.
I can see how before one gets one or the other one tends to overthink things. I did the same. But once you hold and even use these babies you will see its not necessary.
Not even mystical Katanas have full length "rat" tangs or full width chiruwa tangs. So both should be more than adequate.
Anyways. I have both versions from HI and don't feel a difference in performance. How much weight difference can there really be anyways? Chiruwa is often tapered and on top of that part of the increase in metal is offset by the use of less wood.
Vibrations and dampening impacts of non chiruwa blades? Not that I noticed and I bet my hand meat will absorb much more and what kind of handle it is shouldn't matter especially if you hold the Kukri not with a tight monkey fist but more losely.
Also if impact on the handle is reduced same would happen on the edge and this reduce effectiveness the same way fatigue would supposedly be reduced.
All HIs are perfectly balanced maybe they just add a few more ounces to the blade if the handle contains more metal or do some other balancing magic.
I can see how before one gets one or the other one tends to overthink things. I did the same. But once you hold and even use these babies you will see its not necessary.
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Yeah, terminology may differ, depending on who you ask, but if you want the super-strong "chiruwa" full tang, look for the pins/rivets on the sides of the handle.
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99.9% of knife makers, suppliers, and buyers do not consider HI's standard handle full tang... whether the website says it or not. Sorry but its the truth. I prefer the standard tang anyway.
If we were to use that logic almost all of those cheap rat tail tang Chinese swords would be considered "full tang"... I think not!
Agreed.
Bawanna
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Now don't yall make me come down there and separate yall. No matter how you call it both styles are tough as nails and you ain't gonna break em under any kind of normal or even heavy duty use.
A horse by any other name is still a horse unless of course a person don't know a horse from a mule in which case it might be a mule or even a tall donkey. I forget where I was or where I was going, I better go look for myself. If I get back before I do I'll be right back.
A horse by any other name is still a horse unless of course a person don't know a horse from a mule in which case it might be a mule or even a tall donkey. I forget where I was or where I was going, I better go look for myself. If I get back before I do I'll be right back.
cul4u01
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HI's "rat tail" tangs should be called "kangaroo" tails, because these tangs are much thicker than traditional "rat tail" tangs. Someone around her has an actual X-Ray of these tangs, and they are definitely more substantial than any other "rat tail or stick" tang I've ever seen.
The Hi "full Tangs" are called Chiruwa, and you can tell by the rivets and seeing the metal showing between the two handle slabs.
Buy with confidence, HI's support and customer service is beyond any other on Earth, "nuff said!
Whenever in doubt by viewing a picture, just email auntie for confirmation, problem solved.
The Hi "full Tangs" are called Chiruwa, and you can tell by the rivets and seeing the metal showing between the two handle slabs.
Buy with confidence, HI's support and customer service is beyond any other on Earth, "nuff said!
Whenever in doubt by viewing a picture, just email auntie for confirmation, problem solved.
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Ok, now I'm a little confused, so it's picture time. Do you mean exposed tang like on the AK Bowie line? Like this?
Or full-tang/Chiruwa like this?
And as a control, the traditional rat-tail/kangaroo-tail
I suppose I should just emphasize again that the handle style is almost irrelevant when it comes to the strength of these knives from Nepal. I have held blocks of steel that feel less sturdy than these blades
Or full-tang/Chiruwa like this?
And as a control, the traditional rat-tail/kangaroo-tail
I suppose I should just emphasize again that the handle style is almost irrelevant when it comes to the strength of these knives from Nepal. I have held blocks of steel that feel less sturdy than these blades
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It is almost impossible to give you a definitive answer on what models are Chiruwa or not.
Any model can be made Chiruwa and any Chiruwa model can be made without.
If it is showing pinning on the scales, most generally it's a Chiruwa model. If not, it's a regular full tang rat, kangaroo tail model.
Either one will serve their owners well. The regular tang models are the strongest on the market. There have been very few failures. All are backed up by the best warranty and customer service in the industry.
Any model can be made Chiruwa and any Chiruwa model can be made without.
If it is showing pinning on the scales, most generally it's a Chiruwa model. If not, it's a regular full tang rat, kangaroo tail model.
Either one will serve their owners well. The regular tang models are the strongest on the market. There have been very few failures. All are backed up by the best warranty and customer service in the industry.