Chiruwa or not?

[Steve Tall]

Now don't yall make me come down there and separate yall...

Haha, no need, my last post agreed with his conclusion, and he did say "sorry".

Below are photos of the HI's full-length, integral stick tang:

Gotcha covered!

For the OP, off the top of my head, some HI khukuris that are usually (if not always) chiruwa full tang are:

CAK
Bonecutter
M43
ASTK

Other models can be made either way (as Karda mentioned). I recall seeing some chiruwa Sirupatis, for example.

 

[Moonw]

I think Bonecuters are stick tang usually. The first, experimental BCs, then the Bash Cutter were full tang, and from that point onwards, up until the new offerings by Purna Shamkar (sp?) whch are chiruwa, I think all BCs were not.

 

[cul4u01]

It is almost impossible to give you a definitive answer on what models are Chiruwa or not.
Any model can be made Chiruwa and any Chiruwa model can be made without.

If it is showing pinning on the scales, most generally it's a Chiruwa model. If not, it's a regular full tang rat, kangaroo tail model.

Either one will serve their owners well. The regular tang models are the strongest on the market. There have been very few failures. All are backed up by the best warranty and customer service in the industry.

Just what I was going to say.

 

[Bookie]

I guess I agree with Karda. Shoot, even his shark can't chew through that khuk in'is mouth!

 

[Hawgsnawt]

ok then, next question.... are Bonecutters only available as DODs or can they be ordered off the HI sight? I don't see a specific listing for a " Bonecutter "

 

[cul4u01]

ok then, next question.... are Bonecutters only available as DODs or can they be ordered off the HI sight? I don't see a specific listing for a " Bonecutter "

Bonecutters are only offered on the forum, or if you ask auntie directly, by sending her an email.

 

[vcbvcbvcb]

That's what I was asking, thanks Steve. I don't mean the ones sticking out the butt of the handle. I thought I had seen exposed tangs on the back of the handles of CAK, M43 and ASTK. However, I also thought I had seen them on other models, as Karda said. I guess I should have asked what models are they common on and can they be had on other models.

 

[shortwinger]

Get both...

Better yet, get several of both.

 

[davidf99]

ok then, next question.... are Bonecutters only available as DODs or can they be ordered off the HI sight? I don't see a specific listing for a " Bonecutter "

In my opinion you're better off ordering from this forum rather than the HI web site. There are models that just don't appear at the HI web site, and there are variations in size, weight, trim and individual implementation that you will only see here. These are handmade with traditional methods, so there is a lot of variation from knife to knife, and from kami to kami, even for a given model. The web site photos and specs are generic, whereas the DOTDs that Yangdu posts here give you pictures and exact specs of the knife that is offered. The prices here are better and if it's a DOTD you know that it is available right now.

The downside is that you have to be quick to get one of the DOTDs, by sending an email to Yangdu. Also, if you are interested in a particular model you might have to wait until it comes up here. But if you see something you like and it's already taken, you can email Yangdu and often she will have something similar available.

By the way, DOTDs are not necessarily "blems." Some are blems (which means they have cosmetic issues and are offered at deep discounts), some are overstock in perfect condition, and some are unusual or special blades. Check Yangdu's postings going back a few weeks and you'll see many examples of all kinds.

 

[Bigbore577]

Very well said davidf99, informative and to the point. Personally, I could not have done better myself, try as I might. I'm quite positive the questions at hand could not have been answered in a more clear or concise manner. Kudos to you.

 

[vcbvcbvcb]

The "rat tail" is pretty massive. I think Cul40l1's suggestion to rename it a kangaroo tail is pretty good. It would differentiate from the rest of the industry's skinny rat tails. What are the different intended uses for the CAK, M43 and ASTK? How would a person know to buy one over the other?

 

[cul4u01]

The "rat tail" is pretty massive. I think Cul40l1's suggestion to rename it a kangaroo tail is pretty good. It would differentiate from the rest of the industry's skinny rat tails. What are the different intended uses for the CAK, M43 and ASTK? How would a person know to buy one over the other?

They are all basically beastly choppers, why one is picked over the other? Personal preference, and/or for collections. I for one, have one of each. I personally like the M43, I like how it performs (its a beast at chopping), the weight (its on the lighter side), an it is aesthetically beautiful to me.

 

[Zero_Time]

I'd like to propose the terms "rat-tail" or "Kangaroo-tail" still don't answer the question well enough. To me, and the understanding most people have/used on BF is that a rat tail is a partial tang that terminates INSIDE the handle. If my understanding is correct; the chiruwas are full tang, and the ones up for debate have a tang that is peened over the end cap, going through the entire length of the handle. Thus, I think of them as "Through-tangs", or "peened-tangs" where the emphasis is on the fact that the length is actually greater than the handle material itself, and is peened over it. I think continually trying to define tangs as "tails" will inevitably confuse other users who only know of "full-tang" chiruwa style handles and hidden tangs that are completely encompassed within the handle.

Zero

 

[Bawanna]

Well put me in the inevitably confused column. I know all the different tangs, it's everything else that confuses me.

 

[cul4u01]

Then HI traditional khukuris are basically "kangaroo tails" peened over on the end. Simple enough.

 

[vcbvcbvcb]

I think a term definitively obvious and uniquely HI would be a great idea.

 

[davidf99]

I suspect that getting HI to change its terminology will be about as successful as getting the kamis to change the way they make knives. Every once in a while someone proposes micarta or G10 handles. That gets batted around for a thread or two and goes nowhere.

The terminology is not really a problem. Anyone who's been around this subforum more than a couple of days learns many things about khukuris, including what HI means by "full-tang" and chiruwa. New people will tend to have many questions, and tang-type is only one of them. New people ask questions and old people answer them. It might seem repetitive, but that's the price we pay for having new people come around. The answer is not to change the HI terminology to conform to what new people are used to from an entirely different context. Many of the knife models have names that only make sense from a Nepalese historical or linguistic background, such as Ang Khola, or ASTK, or Bag Bahraib, etc. HI could call them all Bowies, but that would simply undermine the tradition for no real reason.

Handle type is not the only way in which HI terminology differs from what is common on Bladeforums. Most postings outside the HI subforum use "length" to mean blade length. In the HI world, "length" means overall length. It makes more sense when you're dealing with bent-blade designs. I have a 22" Hanshee knife that would be 25" if you straightened out the blade. Of course then it would be a sword, not a Hanshee.

Another difference involves weight. I've noticed that on the Bladeforums Exchange many postings, probably a majority, do not provide the weight. That's probably because most non-HI knives are not nearly as heavy as HI knives, so the weight is less of an issue. By contrast, if you are buying an HI heavy chopper, there's a huge difference between a 32 oz blade and a 48 oz blade. For some people the latter would be completely unusable in the field. Yangdu always gives the weight of a DOTD.

It's a matter of the terminology being adapted to the culture and physical characteristics of the HI traditional designs.

 

[Bawanna]

davidf99, I'm not ashamed to say I love you man.

I'm a solid believer in not messing with success or tradition. One way for people to remember a lot of this stuff is to share it with new people. And we need new people, most of us old people (I'm only semi old) are broke, we need the new peoples money to keep HI alive while we save up more money to shark with.

The kami's been making knives for a very long time, the know how passed down for generations, I think really good is left well enough alone.

So in short summary, you nailed it pard.

 

[Karda]

Most people I know call tangs ending inside the handle "stub tang".....
If people are confused by terminology, they should read and ask questions.
The confusion here in this thread is easily abated by noticing all the little details and the terminology becomes less confusing the closer you look.

 

[Moonw]

Wikipedia seems to call any tang, regardless of width, that goes through the whole handle a "full tang". IOW, exactly as HI's website calls them. So I stand somewhat corrected.