Chisel Grind for Self defense knives

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Aeolus

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First off I'd like to say I'm not sure if this is a proper introduction, I haven't joined a forum in years so I'm not sure what the protocols are these days. I have lurked on this forum a bit and have heard nothing but good about this site, so I hope you all will welcome me with open arms :).

Anyway now that's out of the way lets move on to my question. I will prefix this by saying I have searched the web and asked several different people with knowledge on the subject and I can't seem to get a straight answer. Basically I'm a Kali practitioner and I'd like to get a custom fixed blade that will excell in the role of self defense. The perticular knife I'm looking at can only be made with a chisel grind, specifically a zero chisel grind (no secondary bevel). I have heard that chisel grinds can only cut in one direction effectively, is this true? So if it was ground on the right side of the blade and held in my right hand and I cut from right to left (we call this angle 1 usually in Kali) or if I cut from left to right ( angle 2) would a chisel ground knife cut equally effective or slightly better/ worse or even not at all for both angles, depending on which side of the knife is ground and which side is flat.

Keep in mind this is purely from a stand point of self defense I don't really care about how it performs in everyday cutting chores, unless it is relevant. So that about sums it up, I understand Emerson almost exclusively uses the chisel grind and the zero chisel grind, so I have to wonder why they would choose to use that grind if it can only effectively cut in one direction since clearly they market their knives for self defense application first and foremost. Hopefully you all can offer some insight on the subject. Thanks.
 
Welcome to BladeForums. A chisel ground blade will cut just fine for your application. The problem comes when cutting harder media like cardboard. The asymmetry of a chisel grind will steer the blade off course as it cuts.
 
first

there are rules, then there are secret rules, which are supposed to be rules but i could never find them. then there are the double secret rules - don't ask you find out.

grinds sminds

chisel is a chisel or japanesse chef knife - are you slicing fish thin? or are you removing wood preciously?

good grind is one it comes with or double taper as i call it. depending on the steel you want a near flat tip with a less flat total grind for strength.

one direction? broken sticks cut in more then one so that can not be true!
i got one in my eye, in my hand and my leg - old people get more sticks period.

self defensive it is bad idea! BAD!!!!!!!!

it is weak!!!!

depends on the steel but............. "the zero chisel grind" sorry i am not googling that.

good reason why not too chisel and why too - why... fish! thin veggies i.e. jap steel which is high carbon, and jap food which is thin!

why not: has too due with grain size, grain boundries, modern steels.

want a sumuri sword, buy a mini one, you want a sushi knife buy a little one other wise stick with 2 edges . remember 2 hears are better then one? wait, two sides are better then one.


wow - i just swore i type less - sorrrrrrrrrrry
 
My understanding, which may be imperfect, is that a chisel-ground blade will inflict a more severe, curving cut than edges that are symmetrically ground.
 
Bill1170 said:
Welcome to BladeForums. A chisel ground blade will cut just fine for your application. The problem comes when cutting harder media like cardboard. The asymmetry of a chisel grind will steer the blade off course as it cuts.
Click to expand...

way too knifey

seriously it is fine? no way!
 
last three are bad the first ones are fine

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifeedgetypes.shtml

other wise your blade my chip, strenth is gained by being symetrical - asymetric grind is for specilize cutting. fish and veggies are soft that is why japeneese us it.

it is cultral, germans like it sharp too - why no chisel on a $300 chef knife?

what this it is cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7KdLZY7fQ


quote: "absultly no nessessasary too discuss which is better this is culture" "our much is much thinner then their knife japaneese is thinner"

bottom line a dual edge is best, and dual degree, is best for self defense - foriegn grind or compound grind or dual taper my own world before the internet
 
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benchwarmer380 said:
I have no self defense back ground. That being said, I would think that blade shape and your technique are more important than edge profile. Sharp is sharp.
Click to expand...

yes, master! agreed

finally!
-------------------------------------------
seriously, from above post, tip shape is more related too the steel then the use! dragon says! watch the video it is very interesting and study the blade grinds and ask the knife make which he thinks is best from your picks.

when i put my own edge on, well i am limited with hand stones, that is why the compound edge is the fall back one for all edge. i will chisel my new japneese chef knife but not my new german large knife - i am building a custom chef set after many years of chicago cuttery that has served me well.

i did take one of my older chicago cuttery chef knives, triangle type shaped, and used in the garage and big hunks of blade broke off fast.

steel and grind go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly.

ham and jelly? nah
swiss and peanut butter? nah

grind should match the knife thickness, shape and steel, plus the purpose
 
dragonsprayer said:
first

there are rules, then there are secret rules, which are supposed to be rules but i could never find them. then there are the double secret rules - don't ask you find out.

grinds sminds

chisel is a chisel or japanesse chef knife - are you slicing fish thin? or are you removing wood preciously?

good grind is one it comes with or double taper as i call it. depending on the steel you want a near flat tip with a less flat total grind for strength.

one direction? broken sticks cut in more then one so that can not be true!
i got one in my eye, in my hand and my leg - old people get more sticks period.

self defensive it is bad idea! BAD!!!!!!!!

it is weak!!!!

depends on the steel but............. "the zero chisel grind" sorry i am not googling that.

good reason why not too chisel and why too - why... fish! thin veggies i.e. jap steel which is high carbon, and jap food which is thin!

why not: has too due with grain size, grain boundries, modern steels.

want a sumuri sword, buy a mini one, you want a sushi knife buy a little one other wise stick with 2 edges . remember 2 hears are better then one? wait, two sides are better then one.


wow - i just swore i type less - sorrrrrrrrrrry
Click to expand...

dragonsprayer said:
way too knifey

seriously it is fine? no way!
Click to expand...

dragonsprayer said:
last three are bad the first ones are fine

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifeedgetypes.shtml

other wise your blade my chip, strenth is gained by being symetrical - asymetric grind is for specilize cutting. fish and veggies are soft that is why japeneese us it.

it is cultral, germans like it sharp too - why no chisel on a $300 chef knife?

what this it is cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO7KdLZY7fQ


quote: "absultly no nessessasary too discuss which is better this is culture" "our much is much thinner then their knife japaneese is thinner"

bottom line a dual edge is best, and dual degree, is best for self defense - foriegn grind or compound grind or dual taper my own world before the internet
Click to expand...

dragonsprayer said:
yes, master! agreed

finally!
-------------------------------------------
seriously, from above post, tip shape is more related too the steel then the use! dragon says! watch the video it is very interesting and study the blade grinds and ask the knife make which he thinks is best from your picks.

when i put my own edge on, well i am limited with hand stones, that is why the compound edge is the fall back one for all edge. i will chisel my new japneese chef knife but not my new german large knife - i am building a custom chef set after many years of chicago cuttery that has served me well.

i did take one of my older chicago cuttery chef knives, triangle type shaped, and used in the garage and big hunks of blade broke off fast.

steel and grind go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly.

ham and jelly? nah
swiss and peanut butter? nah

grind should match the knife thickness, shape and steel, plus the purpose
Click to expand...

Could someone please translate?
 
chisel-gind will cut fine in either direction against an opponent. Several designers choose chisel for fighting knives due to good test-cutting results - Hartsfied, Snody, Campos, & Piorek come to mind. It is in use as a utiity knife that the single bevel can cause issues for some users.
 
Firstly, welcome to the forums, Aeolus. Secondly, please excuse the 'static' as the signal to noise ratio around here can at times be problematic. :rolleyes:

A true chisel grind has the advantage of exceptional edge sharpness, easy maintenance (one bevel to sharpen), lots of strength behind the edge and once you are used to it, it is serviceable for everyday use. Not being a martial arts practitioner, I can't really comment on that application, but someone that can, is known as KaliGman in the Spyderco Company forum and/or the Spyderco community forum on this site.
 
We're talking self-defense here, not open heart surgery or preparing fugu. Yeah, a chisel ground edge will have a cutting bias, but when it comes to SD, it's not going to matter at all. The advantages with making or carrying a chisel ground blade are mainly ease of manufacture and ease of maintenance (sharpening).
 
Planterz said:
We're talking self-defense here, not open heart surgery or preparing fugu. Yeah, a chisel ground edge will have a cutting bias, but when it comes to SD, it's not going to matter at all. The advantages with making or carrying a chisel ground blade are mainly ease of manufacture and ease of maintenance (sharpening).
Click to expand...

Agreed. Its going to be as effective (or ineffective) as anything else (grocery store steak knife, gas station knife, Mora, etc) while you are wailing away on a bad guy.

And ease of sharpening shouldn't really be a concern in a dedicated SD knife, unless you are getting in knife fights a couple times a day.

Welcome, Aeolus, by the way.
 
NeverMore1701 said:
Could someone please translate?
Click to expand...

I wish I could help, but I'm lost.....seriously Dragon(sprayer) or is it Dragons(prayer) read your post before you finalize them. Are you just learning English, using a bad translation program, or off or maybe "on" medication. That is the largest amount of gibberish I've tried to read in a while.

Thanks for the laughs!

Aeolus, welcome to the forum!
 
Michael Jannich did some actual cutting tests with various blade profiles and grinds. I don't remember the specifics - you could search at Spydercoforums. I do recall that some did objectively better than others, but having said that, having been once very seriously cut by a knife, the whole thing has the aroma of the 9mm vs. .45ACP arguwasteoftimement - in real life, I don't want to be hit anywhere that matters by either...same for blades, so if the Emerson otherwise works well for you, just carry on.
 
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