Chisel Ground Bevel Advantages and Disadvantages

D

dzlvs8

Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
948
I am curious of what the advantages and disadvantages of a chisel ground bevel is on a knife with a v grind chisel (specifically the CQC-14).

1. Is it harder to get an ultra sharp edge? Seems like it would be easier.
2. Is it harder to keep the edge? Seems null.
3. Any other advantages or disadvantages?

Thanks.
 
I say with my experience, it's easier to sharpen but loses it's edge faster, not sure though that's just my personal experience
 
Sharpening in theory is easier, but for me I have trouble removing the burr without creating at least a semi-v edge. From my experience chisel grinds hold an edge well, though I have never really tested it.
Depending on the way you cut, a chisel grind might not slice as well for you. I use a little different cutting stoke when using me chisel ground blades. (I have 3, two Emersons and an Eddleman)
 
It depends on what you want the knife for.

For utility, a chisel ground knife can be a detriment, as cutting with one (say, cardboard or a brick of cheddar) will have a directional bias. Meaning that the blade will want to angle and curve away from the direction you intend. Combine this with the unfortunate fact that the vast majority of chisel ground knives (including Emersons) are ground on the wrong side for 90% of the population (right-handed people) to be controllable in that regard. For utility, go with a typical V grind, or if you must have a chisel ground knife, find one that's ground on the proper side.

For self defense, it really doesn't matter.

Sharpening a chisel ground knife is typically easier, because you're not worried about keeping things symmetrical. Sharpen mainly one the ground side, and then do a couple light passes on the flat side, and you're good to go. Sharpness is merely a matter of acuteness of angle, and though the angle looks off-kilter on a chisel ground blade, the actual angle should be the same as a V ground blade.
 
My primary work knife is chisel grind, however bevel is only on one side.

easy to sharoen, difficilt to master.

took me years to polish on high grits.

Retention is good because I only cut fish....

My bevel is nearly an inch wide.


advantage is that my yanagi is extremely freakin sharp, you wouldn't dare touch the edge.
 
Last edited:
1. I find Emerson knives to be very easy to sharpen. I used a Wicked Edge and for their V-Grind blades, I used a 24 degree angle for primary side and a 15 degree angle for the secondary edge. I basically create a small burr and then knock it off.
2. I haven't noticed a real difference in every day use between Emerson's 154CM and Benchmade's S30V.
3. I don't do any fine cutting tasks, so I haven't noticed that the chisel edge pulls one side or the other.
 
It looks like most people understand what I'm talking about but I believe that I misspoke I meant that the grind was a the grind but the edge was chisel ground. The nice that I am specifically talking about is an Emerson CQC-14. Sorry if my terms are mixed up. So if that wasn't clear I would like to reconfirm that indeed you have a problem cutting Street even if the grind is a V grind yet the edges to the ground.

It seems very odd that just a chsel ground edge would be undersireable for cardboard. I mean, Im not making art work out of cardboard. Heck, Im not making any art work with an Emerson.
 
dzlvs8 said:
It looks like most people understand what I'm talking about but I believe that I misspoke I meant that the grind was a the grind but the edge was chisel ground. The nice that I am specifically talking about is an Emerson CQC-14. Sorry if my terms are mixed up. So if that wasn't clear I would like to reconfirm that indeed you have a problem cutting Street even if the grind is a V grind yet the edges to the ground.

It seems very odd that just a chsel ground edge would be undersireable for cardboard. I mean, Im not making art work out of cardboard. Heck, Im not making any art work with an Emerson.
Click to expand...

If you've never tried using a chisel ground blade to cut cardboard, you should. Believe me you'll soon understand. Because it is flat on one side, and angled on the other, they tend to cut in an arc rather than a straight line. To compound the situation, in order to control it better, for right handers the ground side needs to be on the opposite side of the blade. Most all chisel ground, and serrated knifes for that matter, they are better suited for left handers as currently provided. The natural tendency of our wrist to impart motion on the knife counters the arc tendency if the ground side is correctly oriented. It's why I currently have no chisel ground blades, period.
 
Thanks for the info. I dont do detailed artwork with an Emerson so I think I will be ok. I wonder if anyone has taken a v ground chivel bevel emrson and made it in to a v bevel with ease and sucess.
 
Some people have done this, but with mixed success rates. I'm pretty good at sharpening, even Emersons, but if I were going to do this I'd send it to a professional that's done Emersons before.

Honestly, though, my Emerson's have all been single bevel V-grinds and I like them that way. Easy to maintain, cut like a laser... no issues at all.
 
dzlvs8 said:
It looks like most people understand what I'm talking about but I believe that I misspoke I meant that the grind was a the grind but the edge was chisel ground. The nice that I am specifically talking about is an Emerson CQC-14. Sorry if my terms are mixed up. So if that wasn't clear I would like to reconfirm that indeed you have a problem cutting Street even if the grind is a V grind yet the edges to the ground.
Click to expand...

Huh? :confused:

The "wrong handed-ness" of chisel grinds always drove me nuts. I bet the bevel side of HwangJino's knife is on the same "hand" side as the hand he cuts with! (I demand pictures of that yanagi, by the way!)
 
That chisel edge is why I stopped carrying my Emersons and haven't bought another in years. V grind with chisel edge strikes me as sheer laziness on the part of a maker. Full chisel grind on a sushi knife I can see, but other than that, no thanks. BTDT, no need to go back.
 
Last edited:
IMG_6311_zpsc6b4b13e.jpg
 
HwangJino said:
I will take more pictures tonight.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That is really way too cool looking. I don't know too much about Japanese chef's knives (though I've been eyeing a sujihiki)...anyway...does that knife have a concave non beveled side? And I take it you hold it in your right hand, correct?
 
cbxer55 said:
If you've never tried using a chisel ground blade to cut cardboard, you should. Believe me you'll soon understand. Because it is flat on one side, and angled on the other, they tend to cut in an arc rather than a straight line. To compound the situation, in order to control it better, for right handers the ground side needs to be on the opposite side of the blade. Most all chisel ground, and serrated knifes for that matter, they are better suited for left handers as currently provided. The natural tendency of our wrist to impart motion on the knife counters the arc tendency if the ground side is correctly oriented. It's why I currently have no chisel ground blades, period.
Click to expand...

My compadre, cbxer, makes some good points. Chisel grinds and chisel edges are not for everyone. When I first started using my CQC-7, my cuts were all over the map. That said, through use you develop a sort of muscle memory that results in a straight cut. Where sharpening is concerned, if there was ever a knife designed for bench stones, an Emerson would be it. Quick to sharpen, then knock the burr off with the back of a legal pad.

Love 'em or hate 'em, chisel grinds/edges do have their followers. I love them, but I certainly understand that many do not.
 
In my opinion and experience, the negative is that they cut like garbage for most tasks. The positive is on the side of the maker because he only has to grind one side of the blade. I've never ever understood why one would grind both sides of a blade and then leave a chisel edge.
 
i like a chisel grind since they tend to get a lot sharper and they are a lot easier to sharpen. most of the knives i make are chisel grinds but i put a half convex edge on them and i can get them freaky sharp (just ask singularity_35 :D). they are also a lot easier to sharpen compared to a flat bevel unless its really wide like the knife hwangjino has pictured.

if a chisel ground knife has a thin enough profile, you can cut straight with them but i think what dzlvs8 makes sense when he said he is not making artwork out of cardboard :D. if the knife cuts up the cardboard going to the recycle bin or trash, what does it matter if the pieces are not cut straight :D.

seilu, chisel ground edges do not loose their edges fast. check out these vids of a knife i made that hasa a chisel ground edge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q_eMwRaHYg https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_Q47m-c082VTlpCZ0p6Njh3Y1E

here is another vid of the same knife cutting free hanging newspaper. before my friend bpeezer took this vid i showed him and pmc how it would cut free hanging newspaper. the paper never gave me any problems like it did in this vid. https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_Q47m-c082VNF9iWmExR2szSms

i get a lot of emersons in to have the other side sharpened so the edge is a normal v edge.
 
Yes the right handed yanagi has slight concave bevel to prevent meat from sticking to the steel.

its a very wide bevel, you can imagine how sharp it is.

Sujihiki is a very fine knife, I use mine for all prepwork, though some prefer gyuto, I like the suji because it is a quick performer with its slimmer
at first I sharpened it flat, much sharper but I find that convexing the bevel stayed sharper longer (though not as sharp as flat grind).

Sharpening a yanagi can be easy since the bevel is so large, you simply lay it flat against stone, however ive seen many chefs find it difficult to sharpen the tip and youll see the tip point downwards.

I can always tell a persons sharpening skill by examining the tip.

the steel on yanagi is white steel by yoshihiro, carbon steel.

im saving for honyaki grade steel on my next yanagi.
They swing at a purified block of carbon steel for a month to bubble out impurities, a 12" yanagi can cost $1000-50,000 depending on detail and bladesmith. Usually the guys making the pure steel knives have had knowledge since the samurai days.

They explained that when steel gets to be very pure the molecules start arranging and offer the smoothest cuts imaginable.

my kasumi (low grade) cuts super smooth but honyaki is amazing!!! No resistance at all.

the reason for extreme sharpness is that dull knives damage cell walls and unable to transmit flavor to tastebuds, while a sharp knife cuts cells releasing flavor.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top