Choil-less Tank Busters...Who has 'em?

Raining

Raining

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Oct 13, 2006
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Just wondering who owns the only knife offered by Busse with a choil-less option.

And have you used it? Thoughts, reviews, etc. would be appreciated! :thumbup:
 
I would like to see a poll of people who actually purchased this version. Let them respond to it the number of times equal to the number of this knife they own and see how many opted for choil vs. choiless. My guess is the number ordered without the choil is around 19% or less. Although I am not a big fan of choils, I think that knife just looked better and more complete with one.

Now, if they had the option on something under five inches, I think that would give much more interesting results.
 
iamtoast said:
I would like to see a poll of people who actually purchased this version. Let them respond to it the number of times equal to the number of this knife they own and see how many opted for choil vs. choiless. My guess is the number ordered without the choil is around 19% or less. Although I am not a big fan of choils, I think that knife just looked better and more complete with one.

Now, if they had the option on something under five inches, I think that would give much more interesting results.
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I agree wholeheartedly - the Tank Buster is in a size of knife that I don't really mind having a choil. I've used the choil on my very similarly sized SJTAC a bunch of times and it's a decent option.

Offer an Active Duty or BOSS Street without a choil, though, and I bet the numbers would be very very different!
 
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it's a tank of a knife. the slightly lower than 3/4 saber makes for a pretty thick transition from 1/4" to edge, and the tip is built for abuse. if you move our hand to the back end of the handle, you can get the same chopping force/weight as you can with a nmsfno held in the normal grip.

with a choil, the only thing really separating the tank buster from a satin jack and an sfno is preference. without the choil, no other busse really compares to the tank buster, except maybe the basic 7, for functional utilization of space. The only 2 mods I would consider on this would be cutting off the pommel at the 3rd tube fastener, and flattening out the spine.
 
Now that you mention flattening the spine, I think it would be very cool to remove the middle scallop/thumb ramp, and making a nice continuous curve from the thumb ramp to the scallop near the tip. That would make it almost a saber / cutlass look.


Crap, now I need to buy a tank buster to mod too...
 
I have one and I really like it. I used it to field dress my deer last year. Amy-0 posted once that the ordering was a landslide for the choil. I honestly wouldn't have ordered a TB without the option of no choil because the TAC Handle isn't my favorite.

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Soulrack223 said:
Amy-0 posted once that the ordering was a landslide for the choil. I honestly wouldn't have ordered a TB without the option of no choil because the TAC Handle isn't my favorite.
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I wouldn't have purchased it either. Even though I don't see myself having a use for it any time soon, it's just such an incredibly rare offering that I felt the need to get it while it was available. I have a feeling that those results will probably hinder busse combat from offering it again, wich is unfortunate because as said about it probably would have been significantly different on a sub 5" knife. If the boss street was offered without a choil I'm sure there would be more of a demand for it then a choiless 6.25" tank buster.
 
I think it looks pretty cool without the choil, more like'a... like'a... "TANK". But hey that's just me. :)
 
Yeah, it looks better with a choil, probably because it's a larger knife.

I agree, if smaller knives were offered without choils, there would probably be more buyers.
 
I would think that the choil is the weak link, more prone to breaking at the choil under heavy duty stress. Most knives I've seen break under destruction tests were at the choil.
But were talking looks right, thats alittle different I guess.
 
I bought one with the no-choil option and like it. I find it odd how different it feels compared to the identically sized SJT. It feels more purposeful, I think.

Last Visible Canary said:
I have a feeling that those results will probably hinder busse combat from offering it again, wich is unfortunate because as said about it probably would have been significantly different on a sub 5" knife.
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I fear you are correct. I think the new Gemini 7 would have good potential for a choil-less option but don't see it as likely.
 
Okay guys, educate me if you please. I have knives with and without choils. I tend to prefer with a choil for sharpening and I have never had anything get caught on a choil like I have read about.

So, what is the draw to no choil? Is it just the additional blade length and no chance of getting hung up on the choil?

I guess my thing is if you are using the blade right by the choil would you most likely have your finger in the choil and in turn block anything from getting hung up on the edge? I guess I am not thinking of the right circumstances.

Also, to the folks that prefer no choil, don't you find it more difficult to sharpen? I mean as the edge wears away and you sharpen more and more over time the choil allows the edge to evenly wear away. Without a choil you end up with a recurve almost. or am I thinking about this wrong?

I would really like to understand the real world reasoning that you guys prefer no choil because I am sure that you all have reasons from experience not just a preference in the look of the knife.

I even prefer the look of a choil just so that is up front.

Thanks for anyone that takes the time to explain and trust me I am not bashing "no choil" just trying to understand why people are against them.
 
d762nato said:
I would think that the choil is the weak link, more prone to breaking at the choil under heavy duty stress. Most knives I've seen break under destruction tests were at the choil.
But were talking looks right, thats alittle different I guess.
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most if not all of the busse's I've seen either break at the tip or at the center of percussion (middle of the blade on most models).

richstag said:
Okay guys, educate me if you please. I have knives with and without choils. I tend to prefer with a choil for sharpening and I have never had anything get caught on a choil like I have read about.

So, what is the draw to no choil? Is it just the additional blade length and no chance of getting hung up on the choil?

I guess my thing is if you are using the blade right by the choil would you most likely have your finger in the choil and in turn block anything from getting hung up on the edge? I guess I am not thinking of the right circumstances.

Also, to the folks that prefer no choil, don't you find it more difficult to sharpen? I mean as the edge wears away and you sharpen more and more over time the choil allows the edge to evenly wear away. Without a choil you end up with a recurve almost. or am I thinking about this wrong?

I would really like to understand the real world reasoning that you guys prefer no choil because I am sure that you all have reasons from experience not just a preference in the look of the knife.

I even prefer the look of a choil just so that is up front.

Thanks for anyone that takes the time to explain and trust me I am not bashing "no choil" just trying to understand why people are against them.
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There are many who have never had a problem with choils. A lot of what I'm going to say is based on personal preference and theory and does not apply to everyone.



I have a much harder time coming up with reasons for having a choil then I do for not having one. Some reasons for having them:
- "looks better" (preference)
- edge wears evenly reducing thinning at the ricasso, and eventual localized wear
- you can put your finger in it for "fine control"
- lashing point?

rebuttal and views against choils:
- looks better (preference)
- comparable edge wear is minimal when using stones correctly, most people don't sharpen on a belt sander and the removal rates are small unless the person is re-profiling out dents or chips. I don't mind recurves, and if I ever developed one (and didn't like it) I would flatten out the belly to re-recreate the straight edge. This is partly an argument of theory because most people in this day and age do not use their knives to the point that they develop new profiles because of wear and sharpening (unless they used motorized high removal rate sharpeners).
- you do get an indexable hand position when choking up into the choil, but you also get a highly compromised grip. It's like the difference between holding a hammer and holding a piece of bar stock: one allows for the comfortable application of force, the other allows for a high degree of feedback from the media being cut. with a knife that has a minimal guard, you can get both. By putting your media on your finger and sliding it into the edge (over the guard) you get all the benefits of "choking up" without having a compromised grip. I personally find that applying force on the choil is uncomfortable and over works my finger muscles where applying force on the handle spreads the work into my forearms; it's user preference.


Where I have had the most frustrating experiences with things getting caught in the choil is with bunched up plastic bags and fabrics. When you grab a handful of plastic sheeting or fabric and try to cut through it, it's everywhere across the knife and handle at the same time, it isn't a solid that you can properly set the edge on. You can rake the tip across the material in repetition and eventually work your way through it, but that gets tiring and a little frustrating when your trying to get things done fast, such as at a busy pizza shop or working with plants where you've got x rows to cover in a 5 hour period. I want to be able to put my index finger on the material, move back 1/4" and cut through it with a good amount of applied force so that I cut a lot of material quickly and without hang ups. I also don't want to have to think about where my edge is, if I can safely place the cut without looking it that's all the better. The choil is detrimental to that task in several ways. the material gets stuck in it and you either have to move your hand back and reset the edge (which you can't really do with a non-solid mass), you can try just pulling back really hard in the hopes that the material slips out of it (not likely with burlap and a deep choil), or you can resort to raking the tip across it. If you choke up on the choil your hand is now in a compromised grip, putting almost all of the force on your index, middle and thumb fingers. If the task requires light force that might not be a problem, but when you have to apply medium to heavy force to cut the material (fabrics or heavy plastic sheeting), your hand wears out very quickly. The more you have to look at your edge and think about how your cutting, the less time and concentration you have for the larger tasks at hand, increasing the economy of motion increases the rate of production. being able to place your cut without looking at it is important, the farther away from the edge your cut gets the less able the body is to visualize where the cutting is going to take place. By keeping the cut close to the hand, you can know where everything is taking place without having to watch it. and yes I know I sound anti-every-knife-safety rule out there talking about cutting things without looking at them: I don't mean walking around with a blind fold or looking the otherway like an autistic child ever time you use your knife. In a busy shop, facility, or job, you aren't always able to watch what your hands are doing and having a choiless knife aids in that.

In the theory region there is also fight logic. anything on a knife that is likely to hang up on fabric is no-go. any tip or edge that will hang up on leather is also no-go. Your knife needs to work exactly as you want it to, every single time. I want to be able to place my knuckles on the body and draw back or foward without any problems coming from knife design and the choil is a problem for this application for the same reasons stated above. This is a prac tac discussion that I try my best to stay away from because like all things, user preference and skill defines the problems that one encounters. To me, any problem that can come up in a fight should be minimized. Every time I see the words "fighter" and a giant choil next to each other I cringe a little.
 
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