Choose your words carefully

F

Full Tang Clan

Joined
Jul 22, 2000
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Having just visited the new Emerson Knife site, I found the following commentary (regarding Emerson knives) quite ironic: "If you are on a trek through southern Nepal or climbing on an icy rock wall in Patagonia, and suddenly faced with a life or death emergency, do you want to pull out a $79.95 copy of an Emerson made in Taiwan for about $3.78? Of course, the choice will always be yours."

First, I'm not really quite sure what the statement means since it is saying that "the copy" costs $79.95, no, wait, it costs $3.78. Which one? Please proof-read before advertising!!!

However, my main point is that it is a bit ironic since some bargain knives made in Taiwan these days (i.e. CRKT) are very well made. Yes, I admit that CRKT is an exceptional product and no $3.98 "Copy".

The bigger point is that Emerson knives have recently drawn criticism at BLADEFORUMS over the past year for having questionable quality fit and finish. Therefore, it is hypocritical to make a blanket implication that any knives made outside of the USA, let alone from Emerson Knives, are crap.

Well, I hope Ernest Emerson can back up his claims as I think the man is a knife designer genius, and I look forward to purchasing one of his knives in the future.
 
I don't know how anyone can despute CRKT quality (they do what they are supposed to do at a good price). Perhaps they meant all the really cheap Taiwanese knock offs you see at flea markets and on home shopping networks. Those are nowhere near CRNT quality.
EDIT: I re-read your post and now I see what you are saying. So what if it costs CRNT $3.78 to make a knife, they are still very good.
 
Tactical,

I think I should choose MY words more carefully. My commentary is based on the fact that Emerson knives have recently been criticized for poor quality control: poorly finished G-10, uneven edges, blades rubbing against the liner, loose blades, etc.

That is why I found it funny when the advertisement talks about having a reliable knife in a critical situation.

Let me re-emphasize that I personally think that Emerson knives are great in design. That "Wave" is so clever, I wish it could be incorporated into my REKAT Sifu. In addition, the bulk of criticism was about a year ago at this forum. Has Emerson knives improved?
 
Full Tang Clan, I bought my Raven and Commander when they first came out, so outside of very tight locking liners I have not had any problems. My LaGriffe is fine too. I agree that it is wrong to make a blanket statement about knives from Taiwan being sub-par as some are very good. I hope Emerson production has improved as the designs are worthy. I'm interested in the new Police utility. I always warm up to advertising that stresses your knives good points much more that ads that knock the competion. What Emerson are ya looking at?:D
 
Have you seen the endless taiwan made knock-offs of the CQC7? Very comparable to the knock-offs of Spyderco models(i.e. they're a bunch of crap). $79.95 vs $3.98 seems to be a comparison with the actual market price of the knife and the cost of manufacturing the knife. I certainly won't deny that Emerson might have some QC issues, I recently had one problem that required them to send me new parts, and several other problems which I managed to tweak out myself. I think 95% of Emerson's problem is they don't put any loctite on the screws and everything becomes a little loose over time. The good side is you can take the knife apart, apply loctite, tweak the parts in any way you see fit, and put it back together all without voiding the warranty. It's not very difficult at all. But I can see how some people might not appreciate the way Emerson knives are made. In the end, I think I'd rather have the poorest quality Emerson versus a knock-off of that same Emerson. CRKT and all the other good taiwan-made knives(timberline comes to mind) don't seem to be what the commentary was addressing. To make an analogy: Would you rather have a Spyderco endura, or a taiwan knock-off of the spyderco endura with butterknife steel and a 3/4 inch plastic thumb... thing? Pretty clear what the answer should be(if your cognitive faculties are functioning properly). That being said, I do think the statement in the Emerson commentary was a little vague and I'll admit I had to read it over twice the first time I saw it to understand what it was saying.
 
The only problem I have with my Emersons is the screw finish wearing off. Infamous problem, they should beadblast them or coat them better.

Have there been problems? Maybe so. The Company has went from a Custom Maker to having a Production Company and finding their feet, so to speak.

Most people cut Emerson no slack because of the way he advertises while they cut other Manufacturers all sorts of slack. When another Manufacturer's lock fails, their fingers are not so much an issue, when the Emerson Liner Lock fails, their fingers become more valuable to them. An interesting phenomenon in my opinion...

I have seen people say, "Well, I spine whacked the Emerson and the lock failed." It either collapsed or locked up tight.

I'll remember that the next time I go to a car Dealer and I want to test the seatbelt out, much to the terrified Car Salesman's dismay. :eek:

In closing, I believe the Member up above was correct, I believe EKI was referring to Flea Market and Home Shopping Network trash-knives.
 
I don't believe in reading the advertising to begin with. Word of mouth from experienced users gives me the information I need, outside of trying for myself. That's why I hang out with all the knuts here.
 
Personally, Full Tang, and any others, I think it is abominable, a gross manifestation of gall to use any words critical of the actions or words of the self-anointed leader of the knife world. He's liable to walk over any water separating the two of you, and make you very, very sorry. :D :D

I've read too many threads about the need to go through 4-5 examples of any EK knife to find one of acceptable quality to be usable to believe EE has any business directly, or indirectly, criticizing the quality of knives made by any other legitimate outfit. Several of those threads have been written by the EK faithful. I'm more cynical than you and don't believe for a minute he's talking about super cheap POS knockoffs that sell for $3.78 or whatever. I think he is pointing directly at CRKT, Timberline, and Outdoor Edge, several of whose knives are priced in the $80 MSRP range.

If I had to choose a knife, sight unseen by one of those 4 companies, to rely upon in a survival situation, I believe the EK knife would be choice #4. I'd probably put OE 1st.
 
Originally posted by Bugs3x
Personally, Full Tang, and any others, I think it is abominable, a gross manifestation of gall to use any words critical of the actions or words of the self-anointed leader of the knife world.[1]

I've read too many threads about the need to go through 4-5 examples of any EK knife to find one of acceptable quality to be usable to believe EE has any business directly, or indirectly, criticizing the quality of knives made by any other legitimate outfit.[2] Several of those threads have been written by the EK faithful.[3] I'm more cynical than you and don't believe for a minute he's talking about super cheap POS knockoffs that sell for $3.78 or whatever. I think he is pointing directly at CRKT, Timberline, and Outdoor Edge, several of whose knives are priced in the $80 MSRP range.[4]
Click to expand...

[1] He never "anointed" himself as anything. He knows how to use an edged weapon and I think that was a part of the statement, in that it gives him a unique insight into what makes a good tactical folder. I've seen you say this twice now. It's simply absurd.

[2] I have 9 examples of his production knives that are not only usable, they're excellent. Are you inferring that EKI is illegitimate by your statement that other Manufacturers are legitimate?

[3] Since I have 9 EKIs, well, 10 if you count the LaGriffe, I guess I am one of the "faithful" you speak of. You're inferring that I'm a liar or other people are and we like to spend alot of money for the "honor" of lying about Emerson. Interesting...

[4] In that statement from EKI, they specifically stated, "COPY," are you saying that CRK&T, Timberline or Outdoor Edge are copying Emerson Knives?

CRK&Ts are neat, good bang for the buck, but the ones I have had will rust in your pocket in a day [KFFs]. Let's bash them. Or...be adults and simply state what you like for once, positivity, instead of using your Psychic Abilities and trying to climb in other people's heads with regard to what their intentions are, if they are lying...blah blah blah, it's old.

Pick on Benchmade's "Real-Tree" Camouflage for awhile, the Emerson Bashing is old...given the huge erection you have, it would seem you love Emerson Knives. :D
 
My mystique with Emerson knives started when Richard Marcinko did his Rogue Warrior series. The custom "starring" in those books was routinely used to "jimmy" doors open. I learned that you don't try to jimmy a door with the Benchmade production version of the CQC-7.
 
What exactly was said to imply that EE is the leader of the industry? We don't see any knife advertising over here. The wording of the advert (shown in thread) is VERY poor though. However, how many here would trust a cheap knock off knife to save a life? Not me...

I have heard way to many comments about EK QC to give one a chance without holding one first. Makers like Spyderco I will trust enough to buy a knife without seeing it first, simply because the fit and finish as well as overall QC has always been first rate and we don't hear much against them. Oh and I bet Spyderco sell ten times as many knives to boot. Until I see several in person, I will withold final judgement.
 
Everyone puts out a turd once in a while. Sometimes, a whole run of them. I love it when someone says, "X Manufacturer's knife was dull out of the box." Does my heart good. But not alot of people pile on them.

They pile on Emerson because of the Tactical Thing. It's old.
 
I've followed this thread loosely, observing quietly

Quote Bugs3x:
indirectly, criticizing the quality of knives made by any other legitimate outfit. Several of those threads have been written by the EK faithful. I'm more cynical than you and don't believe for a minute he's talking about super cheap POS knockoffs that sell for $3.78 or whatever. I think he is pointing directly at CRKT, Timberline, and Outdoor Edge, several of whose knives are priced in the $80 MSRP range.
Click to expand...

I guess I fall in the "EK faithful" category. What exact threads are you referring too there Bugs?

I know overall, the "Usual Suspects" have been very supportive of other makers products. Not only higher end products like MTs and CRKs, but also "lower price pointed" knives, specifically CRK&T (I own several myself).

As a matter of fact, I'd say that the Emerson forum folks are less prone to pointlessly bashing other makers then some other folks around here. :D

John
 
Originally posted by John Hollister
As a matter of fact, I'd say that the Emerson forum folks are less prone to pointlessly bashing other makers then some other folks around here.

John
Click to expand...

Yeah, what he said, in other words, we like our junk and usually your junk too. :rolleyes:
 
I have NEVER seen a production knife thats fit and finish is as good as I would like. Microtech has been the best, and I can find a problem on each and every one of them I've seen. Spyderco is second, with their main problem being uneven edge bevels. I looked over two dozen Spydercos on the 2nd at the archery shop my uncle works at, all of them had exactly the same problem with uneven edge bevels. Which was really too bad, because I wanted to get the stainless steel handle endura. If fit and finish is really important to you, like it is to me, you're going to have to look through AT LEAST 5 or 6 of any model knife, by any production company, before you find one that's good enough for you. I must say I haven't handled a sebenza, so any of you out there that will jump on that knife as "perfect" please know that I'm entirely ignorant of it's normal fit and finish, and thus I am not including that knife in my generalized statements. :)

I don't think either Benchmade, or EKI, which are the two most attacked makers, have much more trouble with quality control than any other company, it's just that they have different problems. As for liner lock problems I've never had one disengage. Almost all my knives are knives with liner locks, I don't entirely trust liner locks, but I have some confidence given my uneventful experience with them. Still the only liner lock that I have GOOD confidence in is the lock on my LCC. I wouldn't say I'm an "EK Faithful" because

1) I would never buy a Mach 1
2) I would never buy a La Griffe
3) Pictures of Emerson give me the creeps ;)

But I think that if you have to go through 5 or 6 Emerson knives to find one that's perfect you've spent your time doing something worthwhile, and the results are awesome.
 
Wow ! I've been observing this thread for a while, and it's amazing to me that someone could bash Ernie's quality. First of all, EKI recently went from a mostly custom shop to a mostly production shop. Some decrease in quality HAS to be expected, as Ernie can't hand-finish every knife that comes off the line. Don't be so critical of a production knife. I bought a Commander not long after his shop started offering production knives ( I simply couldn't wait a minimum of 2 years or pay the cost of a custom knife back then) and I have to say that the quality of his knives is what I judge other production folders on. That said, I haven't bought another folder since that day because none that I have seen can measure up. I'm not saying that they aren't out there, cause I'm sure makers like Microtech and REKAT do some damn fine work, but they are few and far between IMHO.


Just my .02

FUBAR
 
They pile on Emerson because of the Tactical Thing. It's old. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ok you lost me here Don! Are you saying that just because EK's are 'tactical' that is why many have a go about them?:confused: eh? Most manufacturers make 'tactical' knives, you know, the black knives that sell well...;)
 
Guys,

I stumbled across this thread, and because I'm somewhat bored after finding nothing of merit after a day of rummaging yard sales, flea markets, and pawn shops...so, feel that I need to say something.

I'll feel better anyway, but if you're afraid of contracting this highly infectious form of boredom, then hit the "Back" button on your browser, and read no further....

Two things....

I don't like the Emerson knives. For no reason other than I don't like them. I inherited a few Benchmade knives version's, didn't like them, and sold them. Nothing wrong with them, I just didn't like them. My choice....nice knives, but they didn't "work" for me.

But...Emerson has considerable acclaim in the knife community, and if YOU think he needs to tighten up his quality control, then YOU need to tell him so....don't do it here, that's weak.

Also, I'm blessed to live here in a big city, and I have the opportunity to view multiple samples of a singular item that I'm going to buy. If I've decided to purchase the item, then I'll look in ALL of the boxes to find the RIGHT one.

I don't ever, ever do this if I'm not going to buy, but once I've made up my mind to make the purchase, I'll look in every firearm, scope, knife, binocular, etc. box to find the RIGHT one.

I know, I know, we can't all do this due to available selections in the areas that some of live in, but do it where possible (Only if you're going to buy), and realize there are differences (tolerances) in all manufactured items...

As far as EEK :eek: goes, sure there should be some high expectation of the resultant product....but if you're not happy with what you see, let the man know, or buy something else.

Flame on kiddies... ;)
 
Originally posted by The General
They pile on Emerson because of the Tactical Thing. It's old.
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Ok you lost me here Don! Are you saying that just because EK's are 'tactical' that is why many have a go about them? eh? Most manufacturers make 'tactical' knives, you know, the black knives that sell well...[/B][/QUOTE]

Perhaps if you had read an earlier statement I had made, namely this;

He never "anointed" himself as anything. He knows how to use an edged weapon and I think that was a part of the statement, in that it gives him a unique insight into what makes a good tactical folder. I've seen you say this twice now. It's simply absurd.
Click to expand...

I was specifically referring to the fact that he is a recognized Teacher of Filipino Martial Arts Concepts under Dan Inosanto.

The quote you lifted came after I said the one that I just quoted, connect the dots and don't be a boob. :)
 
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