Choosing between two pack rifles.

[tholiver]

Ever hear of these? Dlask 8.5 inch bbl 3+1 shot pump action. It's legal in Canada somehow, but has to be over 27'' oal.

Hey Liam.
They are legal to own here in Canada but can you legally hunt with it?
Some of the online Canadian dealers have those 870-Norinco-knockoffs with the 14 inch barrels. I've been curious about those myself.

Flix if it was me i would go with a shotgun, single or double (O&U or SXS). They take down well.
Those short-barreled (O&U and SXS) Stoegers are inexpensive and while i don't own one from what i hear they are decent quality.

Or an old used Savage Stevens 311 with a 20 inch barrel, although the 20 inchers are harder to find than the 28 inch.

For that matter why not get a levergun in a handgun caliber?
I've been lusting after those Pumas leverguns for a while myself.
They come in .357, .44 and .454 Casuull!
You can get them with 16 inch barrels as well.

 

[ROCK6]

Hey FLIX, I have a buddy up in the Seattle area and he just picked up two of the Kel-Tech rifles (not sure which models) for both he and his wife. He's pretty impressed on the quality given what it is and thinks it could take a pretty good beating (hell, he trains in Systema, so he knows what a beating is like).

I have a 9mm version of the SUB2000, and while it's a great, compact design, even with a .40 caliber version, I wouldn't recommend it over the .223 version. Ballistics edge goes to the rifle.

The simple Rossi Trifecta in .22LR, 20ga and .243 is a good, inexpensive option. it breaks down well and you could carry both the 20 ga and .243 barrels in a relatively small package.

ROCK6

 

[lmalterna]

I once built a Rem 700 with 17" Douglas #3 barrel, Browns 1lb synthetic stock aluminum base/rings and 1.5-5 scope. Weighed in just a touch over 6 lbs and the same length as a Winnie 94 30-30. Very accurate and good for deer/bear to 300 yards. Light and compact but still hard to fit into a pack.
A cheaper version would be a factory synthetic 700 in .308. Pillar bed action, have smith cut barrel. I like the little pistol cartridge carbines but cannot recomend one where big game is being considered(beyond white tailed deer).

2Door

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Of those two, I'd definitely rather have the SU16 and have a rifle round.

Maybe someond can answer this: what's the big advantage of the single shot shotgun? I looked at the H&R Topper and Pardner and they're only about a pound lighter than an 870.

Another suggestion I'd proffer is an 870 with a Choate top folding stock. Nice and compact, can fire closed or not, and like I said above, only about a pound more than a single shot. They do make a 20" barrel that uses choke tubes and has rifle sights (not ghost rings), so you can use rifled (Foster) slugs or shot loads effectively.

 

[lmalterna]

Advantages are lower cost, shorter overall length(due to lack of receiver length) and ability to break down smaller- pop fore end off, break barrel and rotate off- quick and easy to reassemble witouht looking down(watching game). I keep a single 12 on my ATV. I bought it used for 100.00 in like new, I painted it to prevent rusting, slapped a stock pack for 5 rounds on it and it is good to go for those incidental moments.

I would not want to treat my favorite 870 so harshly- it could take it, I just like it too much

2Door

 

[tholiver]

Of those two, I'd definitely rather have the SU16 and have a rifle round.

Maybe someond can answer this: what's the big advantage of the single shot shotgun? I looked at the H&R Topper and Pardner and they're only about a pound lighter than an 870.

Another suggestion I'd proffer is an 870 with a Choate top folding stock. Nice and compact, can fire closed or not, and like I said above, only about a pound more than a single shot. They do make a 20" barrel that uses choke tubes and has rifle sights (not ghost rings), so you can use rifled (Foster) slugs or shot loads effectively.

Most double and single barrel shotguns can be easily broken down into 3 pieces, 1.barrel, 2.foregrip, 3.receiver and stock.
It takes-down to a very compact package, If you have a 20 inch barrel then that is the longest of the three parts.

I like pump shotguns but when taken down a short barreled single/double shotgun is shorter than a taken down pump.
A pump with a folding stock is certainly shorter than a regular pump but you still have the length of the receiver and tube magazine to deal with.
Folding stocks are neat and look really cool but personally i prefer a regular full stock over a folding stock.
But hey whatever works for you.
:thumbup:

However if this pack rifle is meant to be more a defensive firearm then a pump might be a better choice.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Well, my thinking is that the single shots I've seen all have long barrels -- not so much with the SxS "Coach" guns (which I'm a big fan of, BTW) -- but with a 20", or even 18.5" on a pump gun, much of the length advantage is made up for.

For absolute length, sure 3 pieces may be smaler, but you're also dealing with the fact that you may not get it asembled in time for a shot. Whereas with an overfolding pump, you press a button and pull the stock over and you're ready. It's also small enough to slide in the side of most backpacks and be secure, even if it hangs out a bit.

Also for hunting, particularly birds on the wing, multiple shots are nice to have. I rarely see single birds flush, and unless it's waterfowl of some sort, rarely is one bird a meal for me, so the ability to pop off a couple of upland birds is a plus.

Oh, I prefer full stocks as well (although I like bamntam-length stocks. I find short stocks help my body absorb recoil better and are faster to mount). I just put out the option of the folding stock because carried length seems to be the driving factor here.

Not meaning to argue, just throwing out the advantages I see, as options to the OP It's up to each of us to determine what's best.

 

[DutchV]

NEF also makes single-shot rifles. I've got the Survivor in .308. It's cheap, light, powerful and reasonably accurate. The NEF Slugger 12ga might be the best all-round answer. You can carry slugs for big game, or birdshot for little stuff.

Be careful, though - these lights guns can really kick. Neither one is fun for more than a few shots.

 

[raindog101]

The simple Rossi Trifecta in .22LR, 20ga and .243 is a good, inexpensive option. it breaks down well and you could carry both the 20 ga and .243 barrels in a relatively small package.

ROCK6

Not to derail the thread, but ROCK6, have you shot that Rossi? Just curious, as I was looking at that one, but heard some not-so-good things about the .243's accuracy. If I'm hijacking the thread too much, I can start a separate one...

And, to address the OP, I'd take the SU-16. I've shot both, and the SU-16 blows the Sub2000 away in both round, accuracy, and fit/finish. Just my $.02...

 

[Pritch]

Thanks to everybody who addressed these two weapons and calibers. I actually lucked into a local shop thois morning that both in stock so I was able to handle and inspect both. I think both would be cool to own and fun to shoot. The Sub-2000 is incredibly small and even body concealable, it such was important.

Fit and finish go to the SU-16. As meny have mentioned, the spit fore end bipod is kind of flimsy, but it works. When closed it is plenty sturdy. There are alternative fore ends and other accessories available. I called Kel Tec and verified that the newest models comming off the line have the barrels and chambers chrome lined. There is talk about them offering them in additional calibers, which would be nice. (But I don't think I'll be waiting! ) I guess that in a survival situation, If I need to take a big game animal with this weapon, game laws will not be a primary consideration.

-- FLIX

 

[ROCK6]

Not to derail the thread, but ROCK6, have you shot that Rossi? Just curious, as I was looking at that one, but heard some not-so-good things about the .243's accuracy. If I'm hijacking the thread too much, I can start a separate one...
...

No I haven't fired the .243, but I did shoot it in .22LR (it was the youth version). I liked it, but I have heard issues about .243 accuracy on a couple posts in different forums; of course I've heard and seen excellent accuracy from others Not sure, but I do wish it was .308 instead of .243...but for my son, it would be a good first deer rifle (if accurate enough).

ROCK6

 

[RescueRiley]

I have a 20 gauge side by side (remington spr220) with 20 inch barrels and screw in changable chokes... The thing is really small and effective,,,and as mentioned breaks down into 3 pieces and easily fits into a back pack...20g is a great all around choice IMO good for all small game and deer as well (although through a cylinder bore side by side) you'd want to keep it under 50 yards.. bad medicine for badguys to I would imagine although I hope to never find out.

 

[pict]

I've been considering the SUB 2000 in in 9mm that handles Glock 19 mags. I did run a mag or two through one at an indoor range once. For the amount and type of travel I do it seems like the perfect "long" arm. My two questions are reliability and durability. Mac

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

I've been considering the SUB 2000 in in 9mm that handles Glock 19 mags. I did run a mag or two through one at an indoor range once. For the amount and type of travel I do it seems like the perfect "long" arm. My two questions are reliability and durability. Mac

I haven't handled the 9mm version, but are you sure it uses G19 mags? I only ask because mine only takes full-sized Glock mags. I think the Glock 9mm version would have to have the handgrip custom shortened to take the shorter 19 mags.

I could be all wet, though, if Keltec makes a factory version to take these magazines.

My Sub2000 has shown itself to be reliable. I wouldn't use it to break down doors, though. If you wanted a 9mm carbine that could break down doors, get the Ruger PC9; I used to have one, and I think it could break down doors for breakfast!

Andy

 

[pict]

I know KT makes a version that takes Glock 19 mags. Since my brother and I both have both the G19 and the 17 it makes sense to get one that can use all of our mags. That's alot of Glock mags already on hand including two 33 round mags. For me this is a real sales point as I won't have to buy a ton of mags for the rifle or add another caliber to the ammo supply. Is the 9mm version reliable with hollow points? Mac

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

I know KT makes a version that takes Glock 19 mags. Since my brother and I both have both the G19 and the 17 it makes sense to get one that can use all of our mags. That's alot of Glock mags already on hand including two 33 round mags. For me this is a real sales point as I won't have to buy a ton of mags for the rifle or add another caliber to the ammo supply. Is the 9mm version reliable with hollow points? Mac

You are correct, KT does make a version that takes G19 magazines. It retails in the US for between $300-$350.00.

I have a Sub 2000 chambered for .40S&W, and I have only shot ball out of it, no HPs, so I don't know if it will feed HPs or not. It has been flawless with standard .40S&W FP ball, 180 gr. ammo, though.

Andy