Chopper/ Defense Blade?

Firearm is best for protection, but a knife is better than your teeth. I recall a Peter hathaway Capstick book about old time hunters and such. One story involved someone in South Africa long ago, a famous person I recall, who was attacked by two lions. One lion grabbed him by the shoulder and the other grabbed his mule. Using his knowledge of lion anatomy, he ran his fingers along the ribs as he was being dragged away to be eaten. He counted down til he found the two ribs near the heart, unsheathed his knife and stuck it in between the two ribs. The lion dropped him crawled away and died. He used his one good arm to climb a small tree and spent the night listening to the other lion eat his mule. Again, knives are better than nothing.
 
Get some of those googly eyes and glue them to the back of your hat. Sounds silly, but wood gatherers in Bangledesh have used them for years to cut down on the number of tiger attacks while they are out working. They also use masks facing backwards to the same affect. I would suggest a Chuck Norris mask!
 
Just because you are the underdog doesn't mean you should not try to fight your way to live (there is a lot of strength in the fear of death!). A blade you can draw if something is in close and on top of you is a must (if Busse, maybe the new Boss Jack, or better yet a Bushwacker Mistress), but for more damage with a few moments notice I think a hawk is a great idea (I have and love the Emerson hawk, not that I am a warrior, just that I like the tools). Can do some serious damage with either business end (spike or blade)
 
hkman47 said:
Just because you are the underdog doesn't mean you should not try to fight your way to live (there is a lot of strength in the fear of death!). A blade you can draw if something is in close and on top of you is a must (if Busse, maybe the new Boss Jack, or better yet a Bushwacker Mistress), but for more damage with a few moments notice I think a hawk is a great idea (I have and love the Emerson hawk, not that I am a warrior, just that I like the tools). Can do some serious damage with either business end (spike or blade)
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That's if you see them coming (Not likely) and if they don't go for the quick kill (Also not likely)..

A lot of ifs and like I pointed out before it's more luck then anything else to survive if something happens.

Like the old says goes....

If you can see tracks and no animal that's not a good thing because they can see you. ;)
 
Where in Colorado are you?

I second the Khukuri idea, and if you happen to live close by, feel free to check out some of my collection.

I find it interesting that CO is seen as a place where everyone carries. That hasn't really been my experience, except in mountain towns. The vast majority of the population (city dwellers) don't seem to carry, and get freaked out by toy guns.
 
Seems like a lot of people around here would have you simply lay down and die if you are not carrying an arsenal of firearms.

Truth is you're not likely to see the cat coming, it's just going to hit you. So in this particular situation, a gun or bear spray really isn't going to be any more effective than a good knife. Same can be said for the large machetes and such, since you will not be dueling with it from a distance, but rather cutting the thing off you once it's stuck to you.

A good small to medium sized knife, sharp with a good tip, that's easy to get to would work.

A mountain lion is not the same as an african tiger or lion. They specialize in killing small animals and deer. They can kill a person, but they are not particualarly efficient at it. There seems to be a learning curve for the animal to do so, since we are not built like the prey they are designed to take down. They rarely, if ever, seem to get an instant kill on an adult. There is almost always time and oportunity for an adult to struggle, but saddly most of those who are attacked are not armed.

People do survive ML attacks. Some have done it using bare hands, and a few have even successfully used knives. One instance that I read involved using a little SAK and the guy got away. Just think what you could do with a sturdier locking or fixed knife.


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BryFry said:
Seems like a lot of people around here would have you simply lay down and die if you are not carrying an arsenal of firearms.

Truth is you're not likely to see the cat coming, it's just going to hit you. So in this particular situation, a gun or bear spray really isn't going to be any more effective than a good knife. Same can be said for the large machetes and such, since you will not be dueling with it from a distance, but rather cutting the thing off you once it's stuck to you.

A good small to medium sized knife, sharp with a good tip, that's easy to get to would work.

A mountain lion is not the same as an african tiger or lion. They specialize in killing small animals and deer. They can kill a person, but they are not particualarly efficient at it. There seems to be a learning curve for the animal to do so, since we are not built like the prey they are designed to take down. They rarely, if ever, seem to get an instant kill on an adult. There is almost always time and oportunity for and adult to struggle, but saddly most of those who are attacked are not armed.

People do survive ML attacks. Some have done it using bare hands, and a few have even successfully used knives. One instance that I read involved using a little SAK and the guy got away. Just think what you could do with a sturdier locking or fixed knife.
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Yeah they are more like a Leopard or Panther in size, but heavier and bigger.

They prey on all species of deer including ELK and Mule Deer...... Those are much larger and heavier than the normal White Tails that people think of.

Mountain Lions can take all game in North America except for the Largest Bears.... ;)
 
salguod said:
As a lightweight backpacker, I just can’t accept carrying that much extra weight to handle a situation that is very unlikely to occur. Put that shotgun, pistol, or machete on the scale. Do you really want to carry that just in case some animal wanders near and you have NO other use for it? Now if you have another use for the weapon (two legged predators, chopping wood, etc) the equation may change. But still, that is a LOT of weight to carry around.

Awareness is the best defense. Mountain Lions rarely, if ever, attack adult humans who are not jogging along oblivious to their surroundings. Bears rarely attack humans who don’t stumble upon a mother and cubs.

I carry a hiking staff which has several other good uses. It will at least allow me to make an end of myself worthy of song. But my wilderness weapon of choice is my Tibetan Mastiff. At 150 pounds, he is the heaviest weapon that we have mentioned. But he is self-propelled so who cares?
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This also played into my decision not to carry. To task a firearm with stopping cougars and bears they need to do it realiably with one shot and that means a 44 mag. Anything smaller is marginal at best on a black bear. That means you're carrying a good 2 pounds of steel that does nothing but sit there for a 1 in a million chance you may get attacked. A knife would serve a purpose beyond self defense and would be a more reasonable choice IMO. One thing I would add is that the knife should be accessible with both hands. You're not going to be able to choose which side the animal is attacking you from.
 
Experts argue whether or not you should fight back against a grizzly or play dead. But all the experts agree that you should fight back against a mountain lion. They can be beaten off by the unarmed because the animal doesn’t want to risk even a moderate injury because (in the wild) such an injury is often fatal. So definitely kick and punch all you can. If you can manage to draw a knife, pistol, or other weapon, more power to you. But let’s assume that the cougar saw you first and attacked you unawares, because that is 99.99% cougar attacks happen. If he is already on you, your shotgun is useless and probably your pistol and knife as well. Good luck drawing them with a cougar gripping your neck. I don’t know, maybe you can draw and shoot or stab without hitting yourself, but probably not.

If you see and confront the cougar BEFORE the attack, he will almost always move off. You don’t need a gun, just wave your arms and shout. This may or may not work for a bear, but it isn’t a bad idea to try anyway. But for a cougar, it almost always works.

But again, the first line of defense is to be aware of your surroundings. Don’t be an easy victim! Cougars look for easy prey, and if you appear alert you can deter the cougar even if you don’t see it. The lion WILL see YOU. If he thinks that his chances of a surprise attack are slim, he will go elsewhere. Most cougar attacks are on joggers who are running in an endorphin daze, oblivious to their surroundings. An alert hiker is a safe hiker.

When I was a lieutenant in the USMC, our Col had us read “A Soldier’s Load and the Mobility of a Nation”. The short version is that if you carry extra pounds, you are slow and tired and you are not thinking clearly. This is not a good way to stay alive. If you are carrying pounds of weapons and other survival gear that you don’t need, you are simply increasing the chances that you WILL need them. Now obviously we needed some of those weapons and gear in the USMC. But do YOU really need it? What will the lion see? He will see a slow, erratically moving, tired, staggering, and dazed guy carrying a bunch of junk that appears to have no useful purpose. Looks like dinnertime!

Think this over the next time you weigh your pack before your trip. Then try taking half your stuff out. You will be safer. My pack these days is usually well under 30 pounds. I can’t for the life of me understand anyone carrying more than 40 pounds.
 
Lightweight is great, but I'll carry a few extra pounds as insurance. There are many dangerous animals in the woods, humans being the worst. It's hard to get the drop on any animal and REaction being what it is, the chances of getting that weapon into play may be slim. I'll take those odds over trying to use my fingernails to gouge the eyes of an animal dragging someone, or myself, away. I've heard/read many accounts where other people were fighting/throwing rocks/swinging sticks in an attempt to get a victim from an animal. Weapons would be handier in that circumstance. I think being unarmed anywhere is silly and naive, unless you have no choice. Many people have been killed by other people while hiking or camping. The overall chances of being attacked by an animal or human while in the woods may be very slight, but that doesn't justify not be prepared. In the real world, as opposed to TV, child abductions by strangers are extremely rare. My children don't walk to school alone just the same. I've seen numerous threads where folks say you're paranoid if you carry a gun in the woods. All you need is a vic farmer right;). Maybe it's years as an LEO or years spent working as one in remote areas, or just the years, but I think being paranoid keeps folks alive. You don't have to carry a cannon, but fighting with your hands sucks. I'll take every advantage I can get. Just my two cents.
 
A 4" barreled S&W 629 44 Magnum with a good shoulder holster would be a viable option.Pair that with the blade of your choice and your good to go,maybe.For a blade I lean toward something 6" and over.
 
salguod said:
Experts argue whether or not you should fight back against a grizzly or play dead. But all the experts agree that you should fight back against a mountain lion. They can be beaten off by the unarmed because the animal doesn’t want to risk even a moderate injury because (in the wild) such an injury is often fatal. So definitely kick and punch all you can. If you can manage to draw a knife, pistol, or other weapon, more power to you. But let’s assume that the cougar saw you first and attacked you unawares, because that is 99.99% cougar attacks happen. If he is already on you, your shotgun is useless and probably your pistol and knife as well. Good luck drawing them with a cougar gripping your neck. I don’t know, maybe you can draw and shoot or stab without hitting yourself, but probably not.

If you see and confront the cougar BEFORE the attack, he will almost always move off. You don’t need a gun, just wave your arms and shout. This may or may not work for a bear, but it isn’t a bad idea to try anyway. But for a cougar, it almost always works.

But again, the first line of defense is to be aware of your surroundings. Don’t be an easy victim! Cougars look for easy prey, and if you appear alert you can deter the cougar even if you don’t see it. The lion WILL see YOU. If he thinks that his chances of a surprise attack are slim, he will go elsewhere. Most cougar attacks are on joggers who are running in an endorphin daze, oblivious to their surroundings. An alert hiker is a safe hiker.

When I was a lieutenant in the USMC, our Col had us read “A Soldier’s Load and the Mobility of a Nation”. The short version is that if you carry extra pounds, you are slow and tired and you are not thinking clearly. This is not a good way to stay alive. If you are carrying pounds of weapons and other survival gear that you don’t need, you are simply increasing the chances that you WILL need them. Now obviously we needed some of those weapons and gear in the USMC. But do YOU really need it? What will the lion see? He will see a slow, erratically moving, tired, staggering, and dazed guy carrying a bunch of junk that appears to have no useful purpose. Looks like dinnertime!

Think this over the next time you weigh your pack before your trip. Then try taking half your stuff out. You will be safer. My pack these days is usually well under 30 pounds. I can’t for the life of me understand anyone carrying more than 40 pounds.
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A very well put and thoughtful post. Thanks.
 
jdk1 said:
humans being the worst.
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Absolutely. If you're inclined to carry a gun it should be geared towards people, not animals. A glock 9 is piss poor against bears but is light, rugged, and will take down the REAL threat, other people.
 
Don't you know it's stupid to fight a bear with a knife? He'll just take it from you and use it against you! ha, inside joke here on BF. Anyhow, bear spray, firearms if you have training with them. Would suck to shoot your hippy buds by accident.
 
salguod said:
Think this over the next time you weigh your pack before your trip. Then try taking half your stuff out. You will be safer. My pack these days is usually well under 30 pounds. I can’t for the life of me understand anyone carrying more than 40 pounds.
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I lost track of what we are talking about here. Some of the knives mentioned on this thread are neally as heavy as a 44 magnum, and I don't see a problem with weight. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. A short hike over reasonable ground with some extra gear, is no riskier then a light and fast trek over rougher terrain.

n2s
 
crom said:
don't you know it's stupid to fight a bear with a knife? he'll just take it from you and use it against you! ha, inside joke here on bf. Anyhow, bear spray, firearms if you have training with them. Would suck to shoot your hippy buds by accident.
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rofl!
 
salguod said:
Experts argue whether or not you should fight back against a grizzly or play dead. But all the experts agree that you should fight back against a mountain lion. They can be beaten off by the unarmed because the animal doesn’t want to risk even a moderate injury because (in the wild) such an injury is often fatal. So definitely kick and punch all you can. If you can manage to draw a knife, pistol, or other weapon, more power to you. But let’s assume that the cougar saw you first and attacked you unawares, because that is 99.99% cougar attacks happen. If he is already on you, your shotgun is useless and probably your pistol and knife as well. Good luck drawing them with a cougar gripping your neck. I don’t know, maybe you can draw and shoot or stab without hitting yourself, but probably not.

If you see and confront the cougar BEFORE the attack, he will almost always move off. You don’t need a gun, just wave your arms and shout. This may or may not work for a bear, but it isn’t a bad idea to try anyway. But for a cougar, it almost always works.

But again, the first line of defense is to be aware of your surroundings. Don’t be an easy victim! Cougars look for easy prey, and if you appear alert you can deter the cougar even if you don’t see it. The lion WILL see YOU. If he thinks that his chances of a surprise attack are slim, he will go elsewhere. Most cougar attacks are on joggers who are running in an endorphin daze, oblivious to their surroundings. An alert hiker is a safe hiker.

When I was a lieutenant in the USMC, our Col had us read “A Soldier’s Load and the Mobility of a Nation”. The short version is that if you carry extra pounds, you are slow and tired and you are not thinking clearly. This is not a good way to stay alive. If you are carrying pounds of weapons and other survival gear that you don’t need, you are simply increasing the chances that you WILL need them. Now obviously we needed some of those weapons and gear in the USMC. But do YOU really need it? What will the lion see? He will see a slow, erratically moving, tired, staggering, and dazed guy carrying a bunch of junk that appears to have no useful purpose. Looks like dinnertime!

Think this over the next time you weigh your pack before your trip. Then try taking half your stuff out. You will be safer. My pack these days is usually well under 30 pounds. I can’t for the life of me understand anyone carrying more than 40 pounds.
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When I was in the USMC 82-86 I used to try and tell people that all the time.

But then our packs were usually pretty heavy not including all the other gear we had.

In short heavy packs are NEVER a good thing.
 
Wow, I never expected to see this much attention to this thread honestly.

CrimsonFalocon, to answer your question, I am located in Morrison but frequently take trips up the Rockies.

If it helps the discussion along, I carry 15lbs at the most with me when I am out.

I have read MANY legitimate arguments here and now I am rethinking the idea of specialized gear. Ankerson is actually making more sense as I realized what he was getting at. I mean, it really is luck, right? It was lucky that I saw the lions before they got too close, it was luck I wasn't stalked back down the mountain and it was lucky that I even stumbled upon them (not necessarily good luck). Would I even have a chance to use or ready this gear? A mountain lion isn't going to stand up on a rock and make himself known to me and say, "Hey Hippie, be careful now, I'm gonna try and eat your stoned a$$!!" so I would have time to prepare. :p

I honestly think I may just go my own way (Fleetwood Mac reference anyone??) and just go with the tides. I had ONE encounter and I decide to post a thread that may have potentially wasted forum members time? Why? I may not ever have another encounter again so I would be lugging around useless gear. No doubt I would do my best to stay alive, but I'm not freakin' superman here! Gear or not, its a numbers game- a game of chance. I may still consider a piece of gear still, but I am leaning towards doing nothing different than I have but added vigilance.

Please don't take this as an end to the discussion, I'm enjoying the read. I am more than pleased that we all could discuss this topic together. Another thanks to all of your thoughts, but if this thread is a waste of everyone's time, we can end it.
 
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