Chopper vs. Machete?

There is a grey area , for me .. my commercial made machetes are readily distinguishable from regular knives , even knives designed primarily for chopping . the cheap timber or plastic handle on a flat blade is a give away ...

I have some hand made machetes tho , that people continually call big knives ... and I made a few what I thought were big knives .. others call them seaxes and machetes ... a machete I made was called a golock by the guy who bought it ...

but among the usual store bought gear , its easy enough to mark the difference .


more difficult to distinguish is the differences between a hatchet and a tomahawk tho
 
Only my two cents, but I have cleared over the last six years about 10 acres by hand using machetes, choppers, chain saws, clippers and brushcutter. The vegetation is mixed: cane reed, bamboo, pine, willd pear thornbrush, wild vine, wild olive, wild rose, cedar and various "cuss you cuss you cuss you" vegetation. The earth is hard, stony, shale and clay, mud in winter and hard concrete in summer.

The machete should be light, and balanced for fast chopping. The blade is therefore thin, and exactly as soapboxpreacher says, it should not be one dimensional. That is a great term for the feel of the blades. A chopper comes down in one line, and hits solid in the same line as the angle of attack. Its weight and momentum stability give it such good penetration and chopping power. The machetes flexibility allows it to be twisted mid flight, like a good sword, and the angle of attack shifts slighty on impact if the cutting stroke is not achieved, which allows for a splitting and ripping effect.

The trick is the flexibility of the machete, due to its thin blade, and not about length. In fact, I find the 24" Latin Machete too long to be properly called machete.
https://picasaweb.google.com/104450...hkey=Gv1sRgCNvIheH14b2aJQ#5633908756381681906
https://picasaweb.google.com/104450...hkey=Gv1sRgCNvIheH14b2aJQ#5633908578996800434

The length of it, on the power stroke, creates a mass momentum, which severely limits hand flexibility. I use it only for bloodcutting thornbush, just to keep away from it, and as a light masochistic axe, for chipping and weakening roots, digging into the top soil. The long machete becomes a bad chopper, albeit one specialized for nasty bramble

So length can be a limitation for a machete, although it all depends on its width, hardness, and the hands of the user. In practice, I have found the ideal machete length to be ithe 15-16 inch length with a blade thickness of tenth of an inch. This lets me work quickly and fast cutting plantlife with FOLIAGE without tiring and without worrying about clearing space for the chop. Whereas a chopper of the exact same length would also be on my belt, in a flat bevel grind, quarter inch thick, and be a better cutting device for thickweed, young trees, and the like, and also for prying tasks. Clearing land first pass with just these two devices allows you to come back later with power tools for clearing to soil.

One dimensionality vs three dimensionality. A great machere dances in the hand like a small well balanced stiletto. Why are they so cheap? I don't know for sure, but I would guess, because making such a blade in this size is much easier than making a good solid chopper (unless it is an axe), and also probably for the sheer production volume.

Sorry to run long, but the quest for the best machete fascinates me. Can't wait for my woodsmans pal.
 
I found that using a sabre cut ( so Im told its called anyway ) , kind of slicing instead of chopping , you swing but instead of chopping into the target like you got an axe in your hand you slice thru it .. pulling back toward you a but as you slice thru whatever it is .
 
pashacavanna said:
Only my two cents, but I have cleared over the last six years about 10 acres by hand using machetes, choppers, chain saws, clippers and brushcutter. The vegetation is mixed: cane reed, bamboo, pine, willd pear thornbrush, wild vine, wild olive, wild rose, cedar and various "cuss you cuss you cuss you" vegetation. The earth is hard, stony, shale and clay, mud in winter and hard concrete in summer.

The machete should be light, and balanced for fast chopping. The blade is therefore thin, and exactly as soapboxpreacher says, it should not be one dimensional. That is a great term for the feel of the blades. A chopper comes down in one line, and hits solid in the same line as the angle of attack. Its weight and momentum stability give it such good penetration and chopping power. The machetes flexibility allows it to be twisted mid flight, like a good sword, and the angle of attack shifts slighty on impact if the cutting stroke is not achieved, which allows for a splitting and ripping effect.

The trick is the flexibility of the machete, due to its thin blade, and not about length. In fact, I find the 24" Latin Machete too long to be properly called machete.
https://picasaweb.google.com/104450...hkey=Gv1sRgCNvIheH14b2aJQ#5633908756381681906
https://picasaweb.google.com/104450...hkey=Gv1sRgCNvIheH14b2aJQ#5633908578996800434

The length of it, on the power stroke, creates a mass momentum, which severely limits hand flexibility. I use it only for bloodcutting thornbush, just to keep away from it, and as a light masochistic axe, for chipping and weakening roots, digging into the top soil. The long machete becomes a bad chopper, albeit one specialized for nasty bramble

So length can be a limitation for a machete, although it all depends on its width, hardness, and the hands of the user. In practice, I have found the ideal machete length to be ithe 15-16 inch length with a blade thickness of tenth of an inch. This lets me work quickly and fast cutting plantlife with FOLIAGE without tiring and without worrying about clearing space for the chop. Whereas a chopper of the exact same length would also be on my belt, in a flat bevel grind, quarter inch thick, and be a better cutting device for thickweed, young trees, and the like, and also for prying tasks. Clearing land first pass with just these two devices allows you to come back later with power tools for clearing to soil.

One dimensionality vs three dimensionality. A great machere dances in the hand like a small well balanced stiletto. Why are they so cheap? I don't know for sure, but I would guess, because making such a blade in this size is much easier than making a good solid chopper (unless it is an axe), and also probably for the sheer production volume.

Sorry to run long, but the quest for the best machete fascinates me. Can't wait for my woodsmans pal.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree with this analysis. Machetes are found in lengths sometimes as long as 28" depending on pattern, and a well-made one will have distal taper to PREVENT floppiness in the blade. You want flexibility for shock mitigation, but not beyond that. Only certain machete patterns are light. Others, like pangas, rozadors, cañero guapotes, tapangas, etc. tend toward being quite hefty.

As far as the Woodman's pall is concerned, I find it an awkward tool in use, though a good overall concept. I partially based this design around improving on the Woodman's Pal's limitations and deficiencies.

yhst-129988217023674_2170_5750684
 
Traditionally a machete is used for vegetation and woody material. By vegatation, I mean vines, branches, briars, leaves (like in a tropical jungle), non-hardwood materials like say a banana tree, a young maple tree, something like sumack. For a tropical environment, you see most choose a machete with a blade longer than 18 inches with lengths out to 28 inches. The longer the length, the more bendy the blade is and more functional it is for soft vegetaion. Machetes are even used to cut grasses.

If you were using a chopper knife to cut grass, you would probably want to grab a handful and "chop" them as a single mass versus mowing the lawn. Choppers are designed for heavier chopping with selective cuts such as you might use cutting a 6" tree down and are generally as effective as a hatchet but not a longer handled axe. I doubt you'd want to tackle cutting down a 12" tree (even a soft wood pine) with a short machete or hatchet unless you just had to. The longer handled axe is the tool of choice which delivers very precise cuts (under a lot of force) over a relatively short area.

The short "machetes" really weren't used much except for stuff like cutting large vegetables, perhaps tobacco, perhaps sugar cane.... the classic banana or pineapple knife. You should look where the short machete is used and for what purposes versus considering the use in the non-tropical USA. They became popular here because they are small enough to stow away in a vehicle or carry on your belt and used mostly for chopping and light brush clearing. For substantial brush clearing, you would probably want a longer machete. It takes more skill to use a longer machete safely and effectively.

The 12-14" machetes are a bit of an aberation away from the traditional machete and are designed for folks like me who don't clear 10 acres with one, but might want a blade to cut limbs or vines along a trail or perhaps build a shelter. The uses are personal preference mostly as a chopper could be used for the same purpose, but the slightly longer blade gives you a bit more reach and can be easily controlled. These short machetes have for the most part pretty stiff blades like a chopper but not quite the heft of a chopper knife.

So you are left with length and weight as defining what a blade is. It would go something like this... 6 > 10" = chopper (knife), 10 >16" chopper machete (knife) [The in between size used as both.] , 16 > 28" = machete and very soft wood or structurally flimsey vegetation. You all can refine or dissagree as you see fit.
 
The machete is a subset of the 'chopper'. Usually, the machete is the long (and thin) blade which is used by the vast majority of the world. The simple design and low cost as well as mass production make the machete THE ubiquitously encountered tool. Jerry Hossum and I still agree that the Ontario 18 inch machete with a properly tuned blade is just about tops for a survival knife despite our extensive collecting/testing and love of smaller thicker designs. We also agree that after a certain point in time, we retire our choppers and take a good hard look at the saw! Better still, hire the 'bracero' with the younger and more foolish arms. The addiction continues either way until all we have left are the comments published here.
 
22-rimfire said:
Traditionally a machete is used for vegetation and woody material. By vegatation, I mean vines, branches, briars, leaves (like in a tropical jungle), non-hardwood materials like say a banana tree, a young maple tree, something like sumack. For a tropical environment, you see most choose a machete with a blade longer than 18 inches with lengths out to 28 inches. The longer the length, the more bendy the blade is and more functional it is for soft vegetaion. Machetes are even used to cut grasses.

If you were using a chopper knife to cut grass, you would probably want to grab a handful and "chop" them as a single mass versus mowing the lawn. Choppers are designed for heavier chopping with selective cuts such as you might use cutting a 6" tree down and are generally as effective as a hatchet but not a longer handled axe. I doubt you'd want to tackle cutting down a 12" tree (even a soft wood pine) with a short machete or hatchet unless you just had to. The longer handled axe is the tool of choice which delivers very precise cuts (under a lot of force) over a relatively short area.

The short "machetes" really weren't used much except for stuff like cutting large vegetables, perhaps tobacco, perhaps sugar cane.... the classic banana or pineapple knife. You should look where the short machete is used and for what purposes versus considering the use in the non-tropical USA. They became popular here because they are small enough to stow away in a vehicle or carry on your belt and used mostly for chopping and light brush clearing. For substantial brush clearing, you would probably want a longer machete. It takes more skill to use a longer machete safely and effectively.

The 12-14" machetes are a bit of an aberation away from the traditional machete and are designed for folks like me who don't clear 10 acres with one, but might want a blade to cut limbs or vines along a trail or perhaps build a shelter. The uses are personal preference mostly as a chopper could be used for the same purpose, but the slightly longer blade gives you a bit more reach and can be easily controlled. These short machetes have for the most part pretty stiff blades like a chopper but not quite the heft of a chopper knife.

So you are left with length and weight as defining what a blade is. It would go something like this... 6 > 10" = chopper (knife), 10 >16" chopper machete (knife) [The in between size used as both.] , 16 > 28" = machete and very soft wood or structurally flimsey vegetation. You all can refine or dissagree as you see fit.
Click to expand...

I largely agree with the above, though I would like to point out that pangas--a heavier chopping pattern--can be found in the over-20" length, as well as the yegua pattern. While lengths over 20" are usually intended more for light vegetation clearing (see the sable pattern, for instance) this is not always the case. I would also point out that weighted machetes in the 16"-24" range are often excellent for use even on hardwoods. I've taken out my fair share of maples, beeches, and oaks without too much trouble. For sure, an axe is the tool for dedicated felling, but the right machete will get you through without too much fuss. :):thumbup:

As far as the term "chopper" goes it can either be a stand-alone category containing chopping tools like axes, machetes, billhooks, cleavers, etc. or can be shorthand for "chopping knife" which I believe is the context which the OP was using.
 
20 years ago, a machete was 18-24" long with a handle that created blisters on my soft hands within 30 minutes of use. I hated them. Could never really sharpen them well and using a traditional file seems to be a bit of an art. This goes back to my surveying days and cutting lines. I was potentially dangerous using one with blows skipping off trees and so forth. Again, I absolutely hated them.

It was a bit of an eye opener when I spent time in South America and observing folks that really know how to use a machete do their work. Again, I hated the handles. For me, it was a disposable "long bladed knife", but for the natives, it was their main tool and they treated them carefully as spending $6-$8 (US) on a new machete was out of the question as that was a day's wages or more.

I became much more interested about 3-4 years ago and my first was the 12" Ontario machete. I have one in each vehicle now and spares. But the handles still didn't please me and I avoid using them except when I absolutely have to.

Then Condor released their 14" Golok and I handled one. Hmmm.... I like this. The handle works for me really well. No blisters unless for extended use. Perfect for a guy who generally does not have his life depending on whether or not I had my machete with me. And yes, if I really buggered the blade up hitting rocks or other hard stuff, I could always buy another one. Just got a 16" Condor Parang and the longer bladed Condor Puerto Rican machete to try out. I am going to have to work on the handle on the Puerto Rica model to make it more comfortable for my small hands. But, it is like 21" and quite the blade. So, I am still in the trial and error phase of machete/short chopper use but have finally found something that works for me very well.

I'll still leave the 12" Ontario's in my vehicle as a backup, but there is no question as to which machete I will probably choose for most tasks; the Condor Golok or Parang. If I head to the woods now and expect to do some chopping, one of these go with me.

The discussion is very informative to me. I want to take a look at some of the ones that 42 has mentioned. I also sense that the 18" Ontario may well be the best length overall for a user with some experience. I just have not gotten to this length yet in terms of comfort.
 
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I dont know that there is any set format for classifying machetes and choppers .

There are so many shapes and sizes of machete type knife .. I read somewhere that the machete we know as westerners is most probably based on repurposed swords , left overs from the original invasion and settlements of the Americas , put to use clearing jungle instead of clearing natives . could be a reason why colonised lands have straight machetes usually and tribal people making their own traditional tools have such unique distinctive styles . just a wild guess

But , to put a definite " machete begins here , knife ends there " mark up , I think , is not going to happen . at least it wont have unanimous acceptance .

My wife says tho .. a machete sings when you use it , knifes dont .. :P so there you have it , no ching when you cut , its not a real machete ...
( Im wondering what and where a golock fits into this tho )
 
I actually find that the classic Latin style of machete, while also being the most general purpose by design, is also the most "noob friendly" pattern because of the simple blade profile being easy to spatially keep track of for safe use. I personally enjoy a lot of the other more complex and refined patterns, and the longer panga patterns are a real favorite. If you find yourself enjoying your shorter Condor pangas, give the Viking a try. It's one of my personal favorite multi-target type production machetes out there, and with a 20" front-weighted blade it's excellent for heavy targets. Also the reach and sharpened clip make for safe, scratch-free clearing of brambles. :cool:
 
22-rimfire said:
20 years ago, a machete was 18-24" long with a handle that created blisters on my soft hands within 30 minutes of use. I hated them. Could never really sharpen them well and using a traditional file seems to be a bit of an art. This goes back to my surveying days and cutting lines. I was potentially dangerous using one with blows skipping off trees and so forth. Again, I absolutely hated them.

It was a bit of an eye opener when I spent time in South America and observing folks that really know how to use a machete do their work. Again, I hated the handles. For me, it was a disposable "long bladed knife", but for the natives, it was their main tool and they treated them carefully as spending $6-$8 (US) on a new machete was out of the question as that was a day's wages or more.

I became much more interested about 3-4 years ago and my first was the 12" Ontario machete. I have one in each vehicle now and spares. But the handles still didn't please me and I avoid using them except when I absolutely have to.

Then Condor released their 14" Golok and I handled one. Hmmm.... I like this. The handle works for me really well. No blisters unless for extended use. Perfect for a guy who generally does not have his life depending on whether or not I had my machete with me. And yes, if I really buggered the blade up hitting rocks or other hard stuff, I could always buy another one. Just got a 16" Condor Parang and the longer bladed Condor Puerto Rican machete to try out. I am going to have to work on the handle on the Puerto Rica model to make it more comfortable for my small hands. But, it is like 21" and quite the blade. So, I am still in the trial and error phase of machete/short chopper use but have finally found something that works for me very well.

I'll still leave the 12" Ontario's in my vehicle as a backup, but there is no question as to which machete I will probably choose for most tasks; the Condor Golok or Parang. If I head to the woods now and expect to do some chopping, one of these go with me.

The discussion is very informative to me. I want to take a look at some of the ones that 42 has mentioned. I also sense that the 18" Ontario may well be the best length overall for a user with some experience. I just have not gotten to this length yet in terms of comfort.
Click to expand...


I have the Ontario 12" and 18" machetes. The thickness is perfect on the 12", but too thick for 18" when swinging through lots of soft material. I've convexed the 12", and am in the process of mounting stabilized hickory scales. They should be much more comfortable when I'm done.
Have you seen the Bark River mod to the 18" Ontario? It is sold through Knives Ship Free, and it is expensive. They shorten it to 14", polish and convex it, add a much more contoured micarta or G-10 handles, and provide a nice looking leather sheath. I'm trying to do my own mods to save some money, but they have some geat looking machete's.
 
Lots of great info and opinions, thanks guys. Been looking at either one and have seen choppers on here up to 11" and Machetes starting at 12". Never crossed my mind about blade thickness, but that the main difference I would guess. Choppers are just that, choppers. A small mechete may and could fit that bill too, right?
 
I can chop like mad with my marble bolo and it was 11 bucks! It is 14" weight is in the front and it is easy to swing, chop and baton with. If I break it...which I havent yet and I have chop quite a bit with it! My junglas...is just too heavy and too expensive to beat to death! But it will take a beating! But I find it too much a one purpose blade. If you want a chopper do a Kukri but becareful in that arena for I have had a few that I thought were garbage...aka my CS...sent it back. The edge was horrible!
 
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