Chopping ability of the Cold Steel Shovel

[Cliff Stamp]

The Cold Steel Shovel is fairly heavy at 770 grams and balances 8" infront of the index finger on a full grip and most of the weight is concentrated in the head so it is very powerful on a swing. The initial edges are rough and thick, I reduced the ones on this one to about 0.070" and 22 (1) degrees per side. They can be lower of course, but since it is a shovel and it does hit rocks, I left it fairly obtuse to keep from getting too tore up :

I have had it for years and use it a fair amount, most for rough work. I recently benchmarked it on spruce 2x4's to check the chopping ability in some detail. I ran it against a Ratweiler :

and the saw of a Rucksack :

Twenty pieces of 2x4 were cut, the times were 39 (7), 14.7 (6) and 21 (1) for the shovel, Ratweiler and saw respectively. This gives a relative rank of 4,10, 7. Thw shovel hits hard, much more powerful than the knife, but it binds really bad and a lot of time is wasted in hauling it out. Plus it has little to no chip clearing ability so the performance would get even worse on larger woods.

The time for the knife is in general low for its ability as I don't do a lot of speed chopping, I would never chop this fast actually working, the fatigue rate is too high, considering the number of wasted hits I would not be surprised if the wood could be cleared in half that time with someone with better precision (and more powerful always helps) speed chopping.

The saw stands out from a performance/weight perspective on this type of wood, but the performance really starts to suffer on other tasks like limbing, or thicker wood and especially sheets of lumber as noted previously. But for just sectioning small-medium sticks it does really well for its size.

-Cliff

 

[Kevin the grey]

Puhleeeze ! Just when I was going to raise you to a semi god status you mentioned cold steel . I know they have some good products . In fact their mini tanto folder is great . They also have some absolute dogs . I had their Bad axe which seemed like it was stamped out of a garbage can lid . The handle split on the second throw . O:K: Handles break . The only reason the axe didn,t fall apart is it was so soft it would bend slightly with almost every throw .

O:K: I feel better now . L:O:L I wouldn,t cry but I mailed their customer service many months ago and they couldn,t give me the courtesy of a reply .

 

[Pahtoocara]

I use an original design Spetsnaz shovel. I know it is lighter than the CS. Do you have any experience with the originals Mr. Stamp? I would like to know how it would fair against the CS.

 

[Spuddate]

Cliff,
I have found the shovel can split three inch diameter sticks pretty well. (The UDigIt can split sticks almost two inches in diameter.) Both are acting as wedges, so they start a split. Generally some prying is necessary to complete the split. For cross cutting, I find a saw is always better, using much less energy. Thus I team my shovel (which does many tasks well) with a saw for cross cutting lumber. The mora then does the fine cutting. Teaming tools always works best for me.

Spud

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I had their Bad axe which seemed like it was stamped out of a garbage can lid .

Some of their designs are a bit off the working tool approach, but there is a lot of "tactical" selling ability now.

The only reason the axe didn,t fall apart is it was so soft it would bend slightly with almost every throw .

Good thing it is "heat treated for strength". Here is a true Bad Axe by Ranger Knives :

1/4" 1095, gauranteed to crush your ememies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of the women.

I mailed their customer service many months ago and they couldn,t give me the courtesy of a reply .

I have not had a lot of luck with them either through email, though I did actually get a responce from Thompson when I sent him a letter through the post.

[Spetsnaz]

Do you have any experience with the originals ...QUOTE]

No I have not used it. Thompson notes his version is "improved" but doesn't say in what way aside from the stock being thicker.

Generally some prying is necessary to complete the split.

Are you working on rounds cut to length with the saw or sticks? I have done some splitting and the biggest drawback is lack of ability to easily pound the shovel through compared to a knife on problematic wood (twisted grain, knots, etc.) . It does have a lot of impact energy though and might work better on smaller wood able to chop split it directly compared to a 7" or so knife.

Teaming tools always works best for me.

Yes in general, the more options available the more efficient a solution can be found.

-Cliff

 

[mr.trooper]

WOW, I never would have imagined that the patrons of BLADE FORUMS would look down on soemone who actualy tests the performance of anything other than a Swamp Rat/ Busse / Strider.

The way you guys act you would think it kills part of your soul every time you see a low end tool standing up to hard use.

Dont worry Cliff, i got the same kind of initial $hit when I had the NERVE and AUDACITY to use a $10 Gerber/Winchester fixed blade for camp chores, and then post pictures of it NOT BREAKING.

They way a few of these guys react to this stuff reminds me of a little kid that gets duped into paying 10 times more for what is esentialy the same toy. When they realize what hapened they throw a tantrum and say anything they can think of to put the other guy stuff down; they think thats what they have to do to make themselvs feel important again.

At least you actualy get off your duff and go use your stuff. You know, WALK THE WALK instead of just talking about it on the internet.

 

[Kevin the grey]

I have to admit buying tools over the internet is like marrying by mail . Somewhere sometime someones going to cry . I for my part called cold steel and asked specifically about the bad axe and was told straight forward I would not be disappointed . I wish I had kept the guys name . That original bad axe looks like a hoot . Can you actually throw it with that long curved blade ?

Enough crying and on to glory . I picked up an absolutely beautiful
contour-laminated wood handled paring knife for nothing . Things work out in the end .

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... i got the same kind of initial $hit

I do catch some flak now and again but the comments in the above were in jest, I have corrosponded with those guys and respect their opinions.

...to use a $10 Gerber/Winchester fixed blade for camp chores, and then post pictures of it NOT BREAKING...

There should be more of this in general, a lot of the "low end" knives are generally more capable that expected. If you read around you can find a lot of people praising really expensive knives for just matching the same performance you noted, or even calling it abusive to knives costing much more which is kind of absurd then obviously. I hope you plan more work in the future.

Can you actually throw it with that long curved blade ?

Catching it is the tricky part.

I picked up an absolutely beautiful
contour-laminated wood handled paring knife for nothing .

How does it throw?

Back to the shovel, I did some splitting with it, first on lumber :

I cut lengths of 6", 9" and 12" spruce 2x6, figuring I could use the lengths to judge the relative performance. The small Fiskars axe split the 12" spruce like it wasn't there. The Ratweiler ignored the 9" wood, never really felt it slow down the blade, but needed a bit of shoulder in the swing to split the 12". The shovel needed a heavy swing to split the 9" and bogged on 4 attemps to split 12" pieces. It could however easily split the very long pieces on the right by just vigerous prying after the initial cut and given the length, it does it better than the knife or axe as the shovel has better leverage so it should also work well on downed deadfall, I'll check that later. Some actual rounds were also whacked apart :

The small axe was again way in the lead in terms of ability to chop split, however comparing batoning time with the knife to traditional axe splitting, the knife was actually ahead, and it had a much easier time with finer splitting (it did the small work on the right) than the Fiskars hatchet and the shovel was awkward for that. However comparing just chop splitting the shovel could split wood the knife could not, which was opposite found on the lumber. The rounds were well seasoned (at least two years) and were already splitting themselves and the sheer impact of the shovel at times caused them to break.

I also did some light vegetation work, since it cuts on both sides it works kind of decent, again it is heavy but you can just swing it back and forth and cut wide swaths :

no trouble on springy woods :

and awkward for carving, but still finer work can be done :

I recut the edges of the shovel to a more acute profile about 18 degrees per side and will do some felling and limbing shortly. Out of amusement more than anything else I might prepare a meal with it, after a good and careful washing.

-Cliff

 

[Kevin the grey]

How does my paring knife throw ? Well enough to split a pair of course ! L:O:L

Cliff I was just looking at a little Fiskar just like that one .

I managed to find someone who scared up an old thread of your giving it a trial . It seems like a good axe for twenty bucks with tax .

What do you think of it as a thrower with that non-replaceable handle ?

I wouldn,t throw it much . Its too nice . I still like being practiced throwing whatever I cut with .

 

[Thomas Linton]

Catching it is the tricky part.

OK. You get an honorary green chicklet for that.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Wow someone needs more fiber in their diet . L:O:L

I am also very adamant in my opinions and that could be misconstrued as a personal criticism . Nothing could be farther from the truth . Cliff,s opinions are of great value to me .

I don,t care what a knife or axe costs . My favourite of all time cost 25 cents . I never put down anyones equipment on here . If the thread was read carefully it was evident I was referring to another product .

 

[sph3ric pyramid]

Out of amusement more than anything else I might prepare a meal with it, after a good and careful washing.

Please document each step carefully for the sake of science. And lots of pictures. Also, if possible, please a) dice a tomato and b) peel a potato.

 

[Kevin the grey]

Please document each step carefully for the sake of science. And lots of pictures. Also, if possible, please a) dice a tomato and b) peel a potato.

O:K: Cracking nuts maybe . Why don,t you field dress a squirrel while you are at it ? L:O:L
Wait , wait I was kidding . Put mr. squirrel down .

I am starting to get where you are coming from on this . Its an interesting concept . Trying to do it all with whatever you use ? I guess there is no better way to discover weak and strong points . come to think of it ? It must be a good way to discover your own strengths and what you need to work on . That gives me something to work on .

 

[Mongo-man]

Great revieuw Cliff, just one note. IMO the so called Spetsnaz shovel is a shovel, that can be used as a SD tool when necessary. Are digging test and chopping test into pig skulls also considered?

I think you took the design to it's limits by using it as a wood cutting tool. It seems to work but IMHO it was never intended as a wood chopping tool?

http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/spetsnaz-entrenching-shovel-1.htm

Sorry Cliff found out later that you already made a prior revieuw

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213177&highlight=Spetnaz

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It seems like a good axe for twenty bucks with tax .

Yes, with a little grinding work you can get it very close to the best small hatchets I have seen. The initial edge on mine was really obtuse but that is common on axes now.

What do you think of it as a thrower with that non-replaceable handle ?

Those synthetics are pretty resistant to direct impacts, but it is really thin around the top of the head. I don't imagine light wood impacts would bother it, I have hit the handle pretty hard limbing, but long distance throws, 30-50 feet, which induce a smack off a rock could likely be a problem in short order. Speaking of handles, I broke the handle on my Bruks maul yesterday so I have to replace that, it wasn't even on a difficult piece of wood. I had loaned it to a few friends, but didn't notice any compaction in the throat.

... a) dice a tomato and b) peel a potato.

No tomatos but it did :

-slice some pork (rendered)
-peel and dice an onion
-slice carrots (up to 1/16" thick)
-finely chop pickles
-peel and dice a potato
-chunk up some precooked chicken
-slice up the fruit and bread

It wasn't as bad as I expected, it was similar to using a cleaver. You have to slice off the potato peel in pieces. The shovel balances just behind the head so if you use a grip similar to how you pinch a chef's knife it is neutral in hand so there is little wrist fatigue. It actually works better than some of the heavier tactical knives I have used. It also makes a nice server and allows for efficient transfer of food to the cooking pan :

Exceptionally awkward though trying to core an apply or remove the eyes from a potato. But nothing that would prevent food preperation in any survival situation. I am going out to lunch with a few friends the weekend, I should take it along to replace those lame steak knives you get. I dedicate the above meal to Fred Perrin, a true lover of the cold steel survival shovel.

The food cutting was done with the edge at 35/37 degrees included, the lowest it could be brought on a belt sander due to the curvature of the head. The edge was filed after being set with a 100 aluminum oxide belt then the burr removed with a 600 and then 1200 DMT stone, four passes per side with each. It would easily slice newsprint and approach push cuts. Push cuts can be achieved, you generally want to put a slighter rough stone before the 600 or do a little more work with it. The food cutting didn't effect the sharpness, but it would not be expected to, even soft steel isn't so weak to be turned that easily.

Why don,t you field dress a squirrel while you are at it ?

Rabbit season is coming, lots of fish as well, don't eat a lot of tree rats locally though.

I guess there is no better way to discover weak and strong points .

This is one of the reasons.

It must be a good way to discover your own strengths and what you need to work on.

That is another. I also do it to keep the work interesting, splitting wood for 8 hours isn't overly exciting, however if you start looking at how the grain effects the split, how different blades work, etc., time goes faster, for me anyway. A lot of the things I do with different blades are often to examine some general aspect of geometry or property of steels. I rarely set out to "review" a knife so as to give it a rating. Generally I approach it with the mindset of what can I learn so I try to do as much as I can to see where and why the geometry/steel succeeds and fails.

...and chopping test into pig skulls also considered?

This came up indirectly in splitting, the secondary tanto-ish point is a really high impact point, much more so than a stab with a knife. I should get some ballistic gel and go mythbusters on it. As noted I have discussed the digging aspect before. I am updating the review currently. I intend to compare the digging ability in similar detail to the chopping ability in the above. It will favor the shovel over the knife and axe very strongly.


-Cliff

 

[sph3ric pyramid]

Thanks Cliff, I intend to link this review at every possible opportunity. 'Intended use' be damned.

As an aside, will the shovel hold up to regular digging without breaking chunks out of the reprofiled edge?

 

[fred perrin]

thanks for this great evalution and your dedicate cliff
take care
f&h
fred perrin

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Yes, with a little grinding work you can get it very close to the best small hatchets I have seen. The initial edge on mine was really obtuse but that is common on axes now.

What angle do you use when reprofiling the hatchet? Do you happen to have a close up of the hatchet head available? Are you putting on a convex edge with a belt sander, or using another method?

 

[Kevin the grey]

One of my buddies says fried squirrel is great . It is supposed to be that some species make a good bowstring as well . Of course it has to be cut and treated in a certain manner .

 

[the possum]

There are many different ways to dress a squirrel. With the method I currently use, the shovel would do just fine. Anything with a sharp edge would; I've cleaned several of them with my big Bowie knife. In fact it was faster than a small knife.

With other methods that require more point work, etc., then maybe this would be difficult, but that says more about how the person uses the tool than the tool itself.